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#315243 - 09/12/19 02:43 PM Emoluments, anyone?
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9969
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Since RR now has Constitutional scholars from both sides of the aisle on board, I think the time is right to discuss the Emoluments Clause and its relevance to the current president:
Quote:
No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.

Has Trump committed impeachable offenses under the Emolumants Clause?
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
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#315260 - 09/12/19 06:53 PM Re: Emoluments, anyone? [Re: logtroll]
Ujest Shurly Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 582
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
Probably. The bank and tax records should indicate one way or the other. Then the impeachment inquiry should prove it.

The hotel in DC, foreign embassies started to book rooms and events after President Trump was elected.

The golf courses, wanting the next G7 meeting to be held at one of them.

Just two possibilities off the top of my head.

Not a Constitutional Scholar by any stretch of the imagination.



Edited by Ujest Shurly (09/12/19 06:55 PM)
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#315268 - 09/12/19 10:12 PM Re: Emoluments, anyone? [Re: Ujest Shurly]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9969
Loc: One of the Mexicos
I was hoping Hatrack would weigh in on what the Founders had in mind regarding the Emoluments Clause. He appears to have looked into the minutiae of construction of the Constitution.
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#315269 - 09/12/19 10:20 PM Re: Emoluments, anyone? [Re: logtroll]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7080
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I am certainly not a Constitutional scholar nor do I know how to spell the same, however, I should have an opinion.

The SC has not ruled on the clause ever. Based on ruling form a lower court I suspect there is no judicial remedy, which implies the court points to Congress for redress.

I think it would be a tough argument simply relying on profits from ownership of a hotel as violation of "emolument clause". However, I also think because of Mr Trump's intimate relationship with foreign leaders, there could be an argument made that such a relationship could also be influenced by financial gain as those leaders rental of rooms for substantial amounts of money.

An example would be Prince Salman of SA, who was involved in assassination of journalist and Mr Trump effectively granting him a pardon. So we have this
Originally Posted By: CNBC
President Donald Trump's hotel in New York City earlier this year reversed a two-year trend of declining rental revenue after members of the entourage of Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman booked rooms there

Is there a connection? Is this the proverbial quid pro quo? I don;t know but perhaps the argument can be made.
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ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

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#315270 - 09/12/19 10:27 PM Re: Emoluments, anyone? [Re: logtroll]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7080
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I dunno. Wasn't it the future Pres John Adams who proposed naming the executive king.

Suppose we called Mr Trump King for a Day. Do you think he would resign because he achieved all there was to achieve?
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

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#315272 - 09/13/19 01:00 AM Re: Emoluments, anyone? [Re: rporter314]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16448
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Suppose we called Mr Trump King for a Day.


I've got an even better idea! Let's vote his ass out and call him Former President Trump.

Apparently Donald Trump recognized that there was no law that said he had to divest of his investments and so he didn't.
And he has every right to make money from them. It's only natural that he would encourage visitors to stay at his properties.

Perhaps corruption has been so rampant throughout our entire history that the emoluments clause has been intentionally ignored.
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#315298 - 09/13/19 04:04 PM Re: Emoluments, anyone? [Re: Greger]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16448
Loc: Florida


Trump Must Face Emoluments Claims, as 2nd Circuit Revives Lawsuit More
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#315315 - 09/13/19 11:15 PM Re: Emoluments, anyone? [Re: logtroll]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17305
I have a very strong opinion (shocked? I didn't think so). I'll say that my opinion is shaped by scholars, and that is that the framers had a very broad opinion about what constituted emoluments, as foreign influence and corruption were top of mind when creating the office of President.

The 2nd circuit reinstated the emoluments case. Appeals court allows Trump emoluments case to move forward (The Hill).

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#315318 - 09/14/19 01:24 AM Re: Emoluments, anyone? [Re: logtroll]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17305
Oops. I didn't realized it had already been posted.

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#315334 - 09/14/19 05:49 AM Re: Emoluments, anyone? [Re: Greger]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17305
Originally Posted By: Greger
I've got an even better idea! Let's vote his ass out and call him Former President Trump.
I'd prefer to call him prisoner 274598.

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