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#315263 - 09/12/19 09:15 PM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9992
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: Greger
Most of those reasons are related to businesses seeking fewer government controls. Like clean air, clean water, employee compensation, or anything else that might eat into the corporate profits.

So most corruption is simply to further the goals of free market capitalists.

Maybe you can help me to understand how more (enforced) regulations on these corrupt characters would make them more powerful? Hatrack's take on this really confuses me... I need a more calm and rational explanation.
_________________________
You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller

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#315264 - 09/12/19 09:24 PM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: Greger]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
Originally Posted By: Greger
I don't think raising campaign funds is generally considered "corruption".

Accepting campaign funds from corporate interest in return for voting how they want you to vote...that's corruption.

Buying/selling stocks when you know your vote will affect their value...that's corruption.

Using your power and influence as a public servant to increase your personal fortune...corruption.

Accepting bribes...corruption.

Almost all corruption has to do with money changing hands for nefarious reasons.

Most of those reasons are related to businesses seeking fewer government controls. Like clean air, clean water, employee compensation, or anything else that might eat into the corporate profits.

So most corruption is simply to further the goals of free market capitalists.
You confuse free market capitalists with rent seeking corporations.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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#315265 - 09/12/19 09:46 PM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7080
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I suspect it doesn't matter whether anyone in Congress would be willing to change the laws, especially since, as an example, the Trump DoJ would not file charges against any Republican for committing crimes involving corruption, since they would have to file charges against Mr Trump.

And if you think the solution is to vote them out, consider what KY voters think about their corrupt Senator ... they don't care if he is corrupt. O and that is just the tip of the iceberg of voter sentiment for the Trump regime .... to paraphrase a Trump support ... vote Trump and frak you again 2020

We live in a world where politicians can not spell integrity and apparently most of the voters (especially Trump voters) don't care what crimes THEIR politician commits
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
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#315271 - 09/13/19 12:36 AM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16467
Loc: Florida
Quote:
You confuse free market capitalists with rent seeking corporations.


No Senator, I don't draw a fine line between them to justify man's inhumanity to man. The US Government is a corporatocracy, an oligarchy.
It is ruled by and for the wealthy. Whether they be rent seekers like Trump Org Or multi national conglomerates they're all out to F*ck the working man.

And it isn't working people paying lobbyists and lawyers and anonymous carriers of envelopes full of cash. It's businessmen out to increase their profits by eliminating environmental regulations and paying the least possible amount for labor.

Government has seen clear to make it easy for the wealthy to become more wealthy at the expense of the majority of the population. The corruption at the top is designed to keep it that way.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#315275 - 09/13/19 02:10 AM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
To answer my own question, since everyone here seems to need a scapegoat for the problem, the solution is simple and there no laws required to make it happen. It isn't to vote all blue or all red. That would only make matters worse, whichever way a person decides to vote. This is the solution. One simple sentence explains it.

DON'T VOTE FOR ANY CONGRESSIONAL INCUMBENTS!

_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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#315277 - 09/13/19 02:50 AM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16467
Loc: Florida
Well, I certainly won't vote for Trump. Will you?

And I think I can promise that I won't vote for a single incumbent.

All the incumbents on my ballot are Republicans.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#315278 - 09/13/19 03:22 AM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9992
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Im voting for all my Congressional incumbents, and none of them are corrupt, that Im aware of. And Ive known two of them for fifteen years. None of them are Republicans.
_________________________
You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller

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#315279 - 09/13/19 05:23 AM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17329
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Replacement will take time. The biggest suggestion: Vote blue, no matter who. The rot goes all the way to the States. The biggest flaw with the OP is the false equivalence concept that "it is bipartisan." While nominally true, the bulk of the problem is on one side of the aisle.

To suggest that people vote exclusively for one party will not fix the problem. Denying that your party is responsible will not fix the problem. Blaming our President will not fix the problem.
That's just nonsense. If the President is the biggest part of the problem, of course he has to be blamed. But Trump is a symptom of the corruption. Its source is the Republican party. That can't be denied or ignored. Denying that your party is responsible will not fix the problem. Pretending that both parties are "equally culpable" is just deception.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#315285 - 09/13/19 02:15 PM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: logtroll]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Im voting for all my Congressional incumbents, and none of them are corrupt, that Im aware of. And Ive known two of them for fifteen years. None of them are Republicans.

They might not be corrupt but the system is. All members of the House of Representatives are up for election every two years. The reason for that is to have citizen legislators. People who are in office one or two terms and then back to their regular jobs. Being a member of Congress was not meant to be a career. That is the corruption of which I speak people being Representatives in Congress for decades. When they are in Congress for decades they accumulate power. To keep that power they become dependent on lobbyists for advice and the money to get reelected.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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#315288 - 09/13/19 02:37 PM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9992
Loc: One of the Mexicos
I don't think your solution is practical, or likely to produce the desired result. I think that controlling the money and public access in elections would be more effective. Undoing Citizen's United would be a good start.

You go ahead and elect a new congressman every term. I plan to try to elect the best person for the job. Maybe we'll both be happy that way.
_________________________
You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller

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