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#317431 - 10/28/19 02:42 AM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7212
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Why would you again disregard the broader context of your citations. Now this is a case where context is important and you neglected to provide it because you know if you did it would change the meaning of your selective citations.

Yes there was bipartisan support for the invasion of Iraq based on faulty intelligence which was for the most part fabricated by the Bush administration at the behest of VP Cheney. As no one saw the real intelligence or the real analysis, they could only decide based on what the Bush administration provided.

I spent many of hour typing my analysis of the evidence and concluded there was not sufficient evidence to unequivocally determine if Iraq had WMD's. In fact my analysis in all but one key item in the Senate Select Committee Report was spot on. That key item was at the time not publicly known so I could not make a determination.

So in a better context we have some Democrats voting for invasion based on faulty information. Why didn't you provide that context!!!!!?
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ignorance is the enemy
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#317439 - 10/28/19 03:11 AM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: rporter314]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Why would you intentionally miss the point once again. Of course there is a usage which is directed against terrorists, however, that is not the context here. I specifically framed the context in regard to Mr Trump. Here is an example of the polarization and divisiveness of the slogan.

Originally Posted By: Sarah Palin
You're either with us or you're against us. That gang, they call themselves Never hashtag, whatever, I just call 'em Republicans Against Trump, or RAT for short...

If you don't see that as explicitly divisive, well ...
The context in which the slogan was used by former Senator Clinton was to unite people against the dictatorship of Saddam Hussein. Hussein was a brutal dictator who had a record of using WMD's. When former Gov. Palin used it was before Trump was the GOP's Presidential nominee. As a former VP candidate Palin was telling Republicans that if the GOP wants to win in 2016 that they should unite behind whoever was the nominee, which at that time it was expected to be Trump. Palin use of the slogan was not divisive it was a call for unity. As one can see by reading the entire article. (Now I know why you don't post links to the quotes that you use. You don't because you are taking them out of context.)
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I'm a conservative because I question authority.
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#317440 - 10/28/19 03:16 AM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: rporter314]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Why would you again disregard the broader context of your citations. Now this is a case where context is important and you neglected to provide it because you know if you did it would change the meaning of your selective citations.

Yes there was bipartisan support for the invasion of Iraq based on faulty intelligence which was for the most part fabricated by the Bush administration at the behest of VP Cheney. As no one saw the real intelligence or the real analysis, they could only decide based on what the Bush administration provided.

I spent many of hour typing my analysis of the evidence and concluded there was not sufficient evidence to unequivocally determine if Iraq had WMD's. In fact my analysis in all but one key item in the Senate Select Committee Report was spot on. That key item was at the time not publicly known so I could not make a determination.

So in a better context we have some Democrats voting for invasion based on faulty information. Why didn't you provide that context!!!!!?
Even if the intelligence was faulty the fact that Saddam Hussein was threat to the region, the US, and the world was thoroughly demonstrated by his invasion of Kuwait and his record of using WMD's.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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#317443 - 10/28/19 03:28 AM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17399
Historically, many of the Democrats who voted for the resolution were not in favor of invasion, but felt support for the President was necessary to get Saddam to back down (and said so at the time). So, the premise is faulty.

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#317449 - 10/28/19 04:13 AM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: NW Ponderer]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Historically, many of the Democrats who voted for the resolution were not in favor of invasion, but felt support for the President was necessary to get Saddam to back down (and said so at the time). So, the premise is faulty.
If they were weren't in favor of the invasion they should have voted against it. By voting for the invasion they put themselves on record as supporters of the invasion. If they were bluffing they lost.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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#317452 - 10/28/19 05:12 AM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42978
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


F/A/O Senator Hatrack - a Minnesotan speaks. smile
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#317455 - 10/28/19 01:01 PM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10253
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
The information I got about the number of people in attendance at the Trump rally was from friends of mine who went to it. What they said was close to the various estimates that 20,000 people were at the rally. If you had read all of my comment you would not have asked that question.

Now you left out the part about 10,000 people standing outside.

Say, maybe you are the untrustworthy source!

In your faint defense, when I googled the Minneapolis rally there were many right-wing sites crowing about a record-breaking crowd and some said 25,000 people standing outside. Where do they get their bogus info? Doh! I almost forgot, those were the "facts" that Trump was spewing!

(BTW, I am suspicious that your friends who were at the rally and provided the crowd estimates you used are fictitious...)
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“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#317456 - 10/28/19 01:23 PM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42978
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


This is what a 20,000+ crowd really looks like. This piccy can be used to for future measurement purposes. smile

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#317457 - 10/28/19 01:23 PM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10253
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
There is a reason why the Trump campaign is not paying for the rallies. That reason is that in Minneapolis the city tried to charge the Trump organization $500,000 for a rally while it charged the Obama organization $20,000 for a rally in the same location. Of course the Trump organization refused to pay that much. Free Beacon

As to this assertion, my fact-checking did indeed support the fact that Trump is being billed much more than Obama was in the past. What I couldn't find were any details about what the Obama invoice was based on (10 years ago when he wasn't President, just one of many candidates). I did learn that El Paso and Albuquerque are invoicing Trump for amounts that are in the ballpark with the Minneapolis sum, and they are saying that they didn't include all of the costs. He isn't paying them, either.

As a general thing in business, if a person wants to contest an invoice because thay think someone else paid less for the same good or service, they need to provide some compelling evidence. It could be a simple matter of market fluctuations - or apples and oranges.

In any case, Trump appears to be using a lame excuse for being a deadbeat.
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#317459 - 10/28/19 01:26 PM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42978
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


Trump is a welsher, he never pays invoices. He stiffed all of the people who built his "Taj Mahal" casino in Atlantic City. Hmm
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