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#315355 - 09/14/19 10:20 PM Re: SF Board of Supervisors declare NRA a domestic terrorist organization [Re: Senator Hatrack]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14332
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Except for part about the immigrants being paid and paying taxes that is an argument that was used to justify slavery.


Slaves were paid and paid taxes?
On what planet?
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#315356 - 09/14/19 10:24 PM Re: SF Board of Supervisors declare NRA a domestic terrorist organization [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14332
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all


I think Putin picked the Republican Party to subvert, because it was the easiest what with being filled with ethically-challenged people who were ready to sell out their country on the cheap.


Well, when you have a prezzy-dint who enjoys yelling "Hey! Where's my favorite dictator!", it tends to make most people think that prezzy-dint isn't a fan of democracy, or pretty much anything having to do with American values.
It tends to make people think that prezzy-dint is a fan of dictatorship.
Who else but a fan of dictatorship would even have a "favorite dictator?"
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#315362 - 09/14/19 11:43 PM Re: SF Board of Supervisors declare NRA a domestic terrorist organization [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15504
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Except for part about the immigrants being paid and paying taxes that is an argument that was used to justify slavery.


Slaves were paid and paid taxes?
On what planet?


NONONONONO

This is totally out of context, part of a longer discussion. It made sense at the time.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."ó Oscar Wilde

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#315374 - 09/15/19 05:19 AM Re: SF Board of Supervisors declare NRA a domestic terrorist organization [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41835
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Except for part about the immigrants being paid and paying taxes that is an argument that was used to justify slavery.

Slaves were paid and paid taxes?
On what planet?

Planet Republican Historical Revisionism coffee
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#315383 - 09/15/19 10:47 AM Re: SF Board of Supervisors declare NRA a domestic terrorist organization [Re: pdx rick]
perotista Offline
stranger

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 128
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Quote:
The San Francisco Board of Supervisors passed a resolution on Tuesday declaring that the National Rifle Association is a domestic terrorist organization. The officials also urged other cities, states and the federal government to follow suit.

...

Later in the resolution, which the board passed unanimously, the NRA is blamed for causing gun violence. "The National Rifle Association musters its considerable wealth and organizational strength to promote gun ownership and incite gun owners to acts of violence," the resolution reads.

The resolution also claims that the NRA "spreads propaganda," "promotes extremist positions," and has "through its advocacy has armed those individuals who would and have committed acts of terrorism."

SF Gate

Gun humpers - how do you like them apples? smile

I don't think the NRA has a thing to do with mass shootings or gun violence. I think our society as a whole has taken a wrong turn. That we have a deep root problem within our society that is causing all these killings. One we don't want to find, know about, search for or acknowledge.

We had a total of 28 mass shootings from 1900-1970. More or less pre-Gun control era, when the NRA wasn't such a political force or advocate if you will. Most of those shootings the shooter knew his victims, they were familicides or committed in a felony.

Then comes the steep rise in the gun control era, 13 in the decade of the 1970's, 32 in the 1980's, 42 in the 1990's, 28 in the decade of the 2000's. Then we sky rocked with well over 150 in the 2010's and still counting. In this group most killings the shooter doesn't know his victims, they're innocent bystanders and the shooting occurs in public places. Killing for killing's sake.

To me all of this means the problem isn't guns, they're a tool. It lies somewhere in our society where we went wrong someplace. I'll make a prediction that even if we ban all guns and do away with the NRA, the killings will continue. They will continue by other means, perhaps not as deadly, perhaps more deadly. Bombs, knives, machetes, arson, fire, chemicals, other means will replace guns. The motive, the reason, the deep root cause of these killings will still be there, the reasons and causes will still exist. No one cares about those. At least it seems that way to me.



Edited by perotista (09/15/19 11:01 AM)
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#315410 - 09/15/19 07:28 PM Re: SF Board of Supervisors declare NRA a domestic terrorist organization [Re: perotista]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15504
Loc: Florida
Agreed down the line.

Our society has become a pressure cooker and folks are beginning to crack. There are observable reasons for this.

I'm okay with trained, licensed and seasoned, hunters and firearms aficionados owning and collecting these weapons. But I've got a problem when Clifford the Crazydude can run down to K-Mart and pick up the weapon he imagines himself being a hero/antihero with as he guns down hoards of his enemies.

It's not really a gun problem. It's a specific style of firearm. It's only used by military and law enforcement and should be extremely rare and expensive among private owners.

But cheap knockoffs are available everywhere and they can easily be converted to auto fire. I'm just sayin'...these weapons seem to trigger a certain subset of the population who probably should not own firearms in the first place.

Make 'em do it with a deer rifle and a four shot magazine.

And also address the reason our society is falling apart at the seams.

Income inequality.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."ó Oscar Wilde

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#315414 - 09/15/19 07:42 PM Re: SF Board of Supervisors declare NRA a domestic terrorist organization [Re: perotista]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41835
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: perotista
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Quote:
The San Francisco Board of Supervisors passed a resolution on Tuesday declaring that the National Rifle Association is a domestic terrorist organization. The officials also urged other cities, states and the federal government to follow suit.

...

Later in the resolution, which the board passed unanimously, the NRA is blamed for causing gun violence. "The National Rifle Association musters its considerable wealth and organizational strength to promote gun ownership and incite gun owners to acts of violence," the resolution reads.

The resolution also claims that the NRA "spreads propaganda," "promotes extremist positions," and has "through its advocacy has armed those individuals who would and have committed acts of terrorism."

SF Gate

Gun humpers - how do you like them apples? smile

I don't think the NRA has a thing to do with mass shootings or gun violence.

The fact that the NRA supports citizens having military-grade weapons shows otherwise. There is no reason what-so-ever for society to have access to military-grade weaponry just for fun.

The Colt AR-15 is based on the ArmaLite AR-15 design. In 1956, ArmaLite designed a lightweight selective fire rifle for military use and designated it the ArmaLite Rifle model 15, or AR-15.

Armalite history

The AR-15 was designed for military purposes. A military weapon is designed for one reason only: to inflect as much damage to anyone or anything on the other side of the military weapon, in the shortest amount of time.

This is why the AR-15 is the weapon of choice for mass-shooters. Hmm
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#315419 - 09/15/19 08:33 PM Re: SF Board of Supervisors declare NRA a domestic terrorist organization [Re: Greger]
perotista Offline
stranger

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 128
Originally Posted By: Greger
Agreed down the line.



And also address the reason our society is falling apart at the seams.

Income inequality.




I don't know the reason, but we definitely need to dig deep into our society to find out the reason why we have had a 150 plus mass shootings in less than nine years. That comes close to doubling all the mass shooting in this country from 1900-2010.

Perhaps more of the right type of gun control is needed. But it won't help if we refuse to try to find the problem that causes this. I don't think it's income inequality. That's been with us forever. We've had worst income inequality prior to the 1960's and pre-FDR with no safety nets whatsoever. Yet, relative few mass shootings.

I don't know the reason behind them. But I do think it is high past time we try to find out.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#315420 - 09/15/19 08:48 PM Re: SF Board of Supervisors declare NRA a domestic terrorist organization [Re: pdx rick]
perotista Offline
stranger

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 128
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: perotista
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Quote:
The San Francisco Board of Supervisors passed a resolution on Tuesday declaring that the National Rifle Association is a domestic terrorist organization. The officials also urged other cities, states and the federal government to follow suit.

...

Later in the resolution, which the board passed unanimously, the NRA is blamed for causing gun violence. "The National Rifle Association musters its considerable wealth and organizational strength to promote gun ownership and incite gun owners to acts of violence," the resolution reads.

The resolution also claims that the NRA "spreads propaganda," "promotes extremist positions," and has "through its advocacy has armed those individuals who would and have committed acts of terrorism."

SF Gate

Gun humpers - how do you like them apples? smile

I don't think the NRA has a thing to do with mass shootings or gun violence.

The fact that the NRA supports citizens having military-grade weapons shows otherwise. There is no reason what-so-ever for society to have access to military-grade weaponry just for fun.

The Colt AR-15 is based on the ArmaLite AR-15 design. In 1956, ArmaLite designed a lightweight selective fire rifle for military use and designated it the ArmaLite Rifle model 15, or AR-15.

Armalite history

The AR-15 was designed for military purposes. A military weapon is designed for one reason only: to inflect as much damage to anyone or anything on the other side of the military weapon, in the shortest amount of time.

This is why the AR-15 is the weapon of choice for mass-shooters. Hmm


Okay, but two questions. Do you believe guns are at fault for all these mass shootings? Or has something gone wrong in our society that is a deep hidden reason that causes these mass shootings?

Personally, I believe if something isn't done to try to find the root causes, these mass killings will continue. That you could ban every single gun, but without finding the root causes and doing something about them, these killers will turn to other means. Bombs, fire, arson, chemicals, Knives and machetes, driving cars into crowds, and more ways I haven't thought of.

they may less deadly, they may be more deadly. 45 school kids were killed by a bomb in Michigan with 58 more injured. Someone set a fire in a Bronx nightclub killing 87. 31 dead using knives in China, 500 via machetes in Nigeria, 133 dead in south Korea using gasoline and a match, Japan, 13 dead of sarin gas. There are other means besides guns if we don't try to find the reasons for these mass killings.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#315425 - 09/15/19 11:01 PM Re: SF Board of Supervisors declare NRA a domestic terrorist organization [Re: perotista]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9474
Loc: One of the Mexicos
I have said that the real problem is cultural for many years, now. Exactly what the cultural problem is, I don't know. It might have something to do with the lack of basic effort required to live (growing food, connection to the environment), maybe some connection to the increasingly impersonal way we live (internet, everything store bought, reducing interpersonal interactions) - cars and road rage I think are an example of being isolated and protected against "the real world" in powerful machines and feeling that others in cars are imposing on us. Maybe the widespread existence of the virtual world, where lots of violence and killing takes place with no consequences. Maybe too many people and too little sense of accomplishment or productivity.

There might be an element of stricter gun control that stimulates a greater sense of responsibility and social stigma about the improper use of guns.

Maybe, maybe, maybe...
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You canít solve a problem without first understanding what the problem is.

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