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#315370 - 09/15/19 04:31 AM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1604
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: rporter314
So when Mr Trump obstructed an investigation, that is not based on facts? When Mr Trump freely admits he gropes women because he is a "star" that is not based on facts?? When Mr Trump for many years has made racist comments, that is not based on facts?

What is your definition of a fact?


Pres. Trump did not obstruct an investigation. He is alleged to have done so but an allegation is being suspected of having committed a crime. Your claim that he did is not been proven. Trump admitted he gropes women because he is a star. What he said happens to be true. He and countless other stars have groped women. That he did is wrong. It is wrong when any star gropes a woman. It does not matter if they are religious stars, Hollywood stars, or political stars. It is wrong! Making a racist comment does not make someone a racist. The definition of a fact.

Originally Posted By: rporter314
So your defense is Republicans do not say stupid things? Really? This is kinda like saying there is rampant voter fraud. Is that a stupid statement? Republicans make statements like that everyday. So I challenge you to find an equal number of stupid statements from Democrats. I want to know what partisan looks like for you.


No, my defense is not that Republicans donít say stupid things. Everybody says stupid things. It is part of being human.

Originally Posted By: rporter314
Wow. Did you read what you typed? You just did what you accuse every here of doing. What do you think that is? Responding to something I did not say ... DUH.

I said ... and please read this carefully ... if Pres Obama had done what Mr Trump has done and continues to do I would have called for Pres Obama's impeachment then.

Now you can respond appropriately.


Why did you edit my reply? Here is my complete comment which you edited in you your comments to change what I said and to make it look like I did not answer your question. That you did that shows that you are dishonest at best and unethical at worst.
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
You are wrong! There were many Republicans/Conservatives calling for Pres. Obama to be impeached. I did not join them in their folly. I didn't do that, when the Republicans/Conservatives were calling for the impeachment of Clinton or Obama, because to do so was and is a waste of time, effort, and political capital that can be put to better use.


Originally Posted By: rporter314
Are you for real!!!!!!

Political positions have nothing to do with unethical behavior or criminal activities.

Impugning my integrity ... really???? .... look .... type a list of unethical or criminal behavior by Democrats, plutocrats, or just rats and see what my response is .... holding breath


As far as I am concerned you have no integrity to impugn. When you edited my comment to misrepresent what I said you lost, in my opinion, whatever integrity you had.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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#315399 - 09/15/19 03:36 PM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6850
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
That you did that shows that you are dishonest at best and unethical at worst.

This demonstrates you did not understand or interpret what I said properly.

I offered a hypothetical for consideration. IF Pres Obama had done what Mr Trump has done and continues to do .... I would have called for the impeachment of Pres Obama.

Your comment was directed to Republicans who wanted to impeach Pres Obama for acts Pres Obama did which are not the hypothetical acts Mr Trump has done and continues to do. These are two different scenarios. So I could not misrepresent your comments because your comments do not apply to my hypothetical. You have apparently conflated all impeachments as being of equal value or importance.

Mr Trump has crossed all the lines for impeachable offenses. Had Pres Obama crossed the same lines I would have called for his impeachment. I am pointing out impeachment for me is non-political. It is an obligation of Congress to oversee the Executive branch to guarantee the President remains accountable to the people. That you do not see the importance of Art II, Sec 4 is concerning to me. Failure to act almost guarantees the chief executive could easily break the bonds of Constitutional propriety and become precisely what the Founders feared. That Mr Trump has trampled on the Institutions which form the basis for the Rule of Law and you do not see a problem is deeply concerning.

So again I state my comment .... you ignored my comment to restate your comment which has nothing to do with my statement.

So I am holding my breath (not) while you type a list of political positions which implies unethical or criminal behaviors.

Originally Posted By: Merriam-Webster Legal Definitions
obstruction ... the crime or act of willfully interfering with the process of justice and law especially by influencing, threatening, harming, or impeding a witness, potential witness, juror, or judicial or legal officer or by furnishing false information in or otherwise impeding an investigation or legal process
Having read the Mueller Report I can form an opinion based on that definition. I have to conclude you do not believe any of the facts (using your citation). It is indeed an allegation which has substantial evidence in support of the allegation.

Quote:
Making a racist comment does not make someone a racist.
So in your mind a Neo Nazi making racist comments is not a racist. Every racist I know (and I know a lot of them) say they are not racists. So it is important to define what is meant.

Originally Posted By: wiki
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior


So you continue to claim people who say racist things are not racists? What ever happened to that walking talking tail wagging critter that looks like a duck?

I suppose more accurately I could say Mr Trump is the voice of white supremacists and racists in America but is not a racist himself. How does that suit you?

Political positions which border on the ridiculous ... and I am still waiting on the rampant stupid form Democrats ... type away
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#315402 - 09/15/19 04:41 PM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: rporter314]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15504
Loc: Florida
Funny that a Republican would have the nerve to impugn anyone else's integrity when they seem to be so lacking in it themselves. What isn't twisted truth is made up lies.

I'm sure that some of them are fine people though.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."ó Oscar Wilde

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#315482 - 09/16/19 11:14 PM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: Greger]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1604
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: Greger
Funny that a Republican would have the nerve to impugn anyone else's integrity when they seem to be so lacking in it themselves. What isn't twisted truth is made up lies.

I'm sure that some of them are fine people though.

So says a paragon of virtue. A paragon of virtue who impugns anyone who is a Republican, just because they are a Republican.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

Top
#315488 - 09/16/19 11:49 PM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9474
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
So says a paragon of virtue. A paragon of virtue who impugns anyone who is a Republican, just because they are a Republican.

Would you like that recorded as a twisted truth, or a made up lie? crazy
_________________________
You canít solve a problem without first understanding what the problem is.

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#315489 - 09/17/19 12:05 AM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: rporter314]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1604
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Quote:
That you did that shows that you are dishonest at best and unethical at worst.

This demonstrates you did not understand or interpret what I said properly.

I offered a hypothetical for consideration. IF Pres Obama had done what Mr Trump has done and continues to do .... I would have called for the impeachment of Pres Obama.

Your comment was directed to Republicans who wanted to impeach Pres Obama for acts Pres Obama did which are not the hypothetical acts Mr Trump has done and continues to do. These are two different scenarios. So I could not misrepresent your comments because your comments do not apply to my hypothetical. You have apparently conflated all impeachments as being of equal value or importance.

The only response to your question is if were to agree with and demand that Pres. Trump be impeached. You are demanding I do what you claimed you might have done.

Originally Posted By: rporter314
Mr Trump has crossed all the lines for impeachable offenses. Had Pres Obama crossed the same lines I would have called for his impeachment.
Only in your opinion has Trump crossed all the lines and must be impeached. Your claim that he has does not impress nor convince that he has.
Originally Posted By: rporter314
I am pointing out impeachment for me is non-political.
Is it? I don't believe you because you have done nothing to convince me that it is.
Originally Posted By: rporter314
It is an obligation of Congress to oversee the Executive branch to guarantee the President remains accountable to the people. That you do not see the importance of Art II, Sec 4 is concerning to me. Failure to act almost guarantees the chief executive could easily break the bonds of Constitutional propriety and become precisely what the Founders feared.
Yes, that is one the things Congress is supposed to do. But they are more concerned about getting reelected than following our Constitution. The bonds of Constitutional propriety were broken by FDR.
Originally Posted By: rporter314
That Mr Trump has trampled on the Institutions which form the basis for the Rule of Law and you do not see a problem is deeply concerning.
Again, that is your opinion. Has Trump put over 100,000 Americans citizens in concentration camps because of their nationality? FDR did with any concern about their Constitutional protected rights.

Originally Posted By: rporter314
So again I state my comment .... you ignored my comment to restate your comment which has nothing to do with my statement.

I did not ignore your comment. That don't like my comment in reply to it does mean I ignored. All it means is I didn't answer the way you wanted me to.
Originally Posted By: Merriam-Webster Legal Definitions
obstruction ... the crime or act of willfully interfering with the process of justice and law especially by influencing, threatening, harming, or impeding a witness, potential witness, juror, or judicial or legal officer or by furnishing false information in or otherwise impeding an investigation or legal process
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Having read the Mueller Report I can form an opinion based on that definition. I have to conclude you do not believe any of the facts (using your citation). It is indeed an allegation which has substantial evidence in support of the allegation.

Whether or not there is substantial evidence in support of allegations against a sitting President the DOJ will not bring an indictment against him.
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Making a racist comment does not make someone a racist.

Originally Posted By: rporter314
So in your mind a Neo Nazi making racist comments is not a racist. Every racist I know (and I know a lot of them) say they are not racists. So it is important to define what is meant.

Originally Posted By: wiki
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior


So you continue to claim people who say racist things are not racists? What ever happened to that walking talking tail wagging critter that looks like a duck?
People do stupid things that does not mean they are stupid.

Originally Posted By: rporter314
I suppose more accurately I could say Mr Trump is the voice of white supremacists and racists in America but is not a racist himself. How does that suit you?
For Trump to be a racist he would have believe what he is saying. There is only one thing Donald J. Trump believes in and that is Donald J. Trump!

Originally Posted By: rporter314
Political positions which border on the ridiculous ... and I am still waiting on the rampant stupid form Democrats ... type away

Why should I do that? Any list I type you will not believe. You won't because you are completely convinced that Trump should be impeached and expect others to call for his impeachment on the basis of your opinion that he should be.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

Top
#315491 - 09/17/19 01:21 AM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15504
Loc: Florida
I agree, Senator. Impeachment is futile and a waste of legislative time. He has been investigated from top to bottom and there are no high crimes and misdemeanors. Corrupt? Yeah. Self dealing? Yeah. Unethical? Yeah. Dishonest? Yeah. But as long as no laws have been broken he may continue to burn this motherf**ker to the ground as far as I'm concerned.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."ó Oscar Wilde

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#315497 - 09/17/19 06:34 AM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17115
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted By: rporter314
I think it is because you defend indefensible positions or statements and conclude the positions or statements are OK.

Many of the attacks on Republicans/Conservatives I have seen here are not based on facts. It is because I point out that they are not true people say I won't admit Republicans/Conservatives have done anything wrong. Your reply is a prime example of that.
Here's the problem with what you are saying, my friend: "pointing out that they are not true", in your practice, means merely saying that "it is not true." Repeatedly you have made such claims (as well as claims against Democrats) without supplying any supporting evidence. Bare assertions do not a reasonable argument make. ("Is not", "is too", "is not", ad nauseum is not a reasonable debate process.) When evidence is marshalled in opposition to your points, the most common responses are: 1) no response, 2) spurious personal allegations of arrogance, or partisanship, 3) gish-gallop posts with further unsubstantiated assertions of "fact", and/or 4) tangential distractions and deflections. It is very, very frustrating.

Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted By: rporter314
If a Democrat had said or done what Republicans have said or done I would be in front of the line protesting.

Should I hold my breath waiting for you to do that?
In relation to...? [see #4) tangential distractions and deflections.]

Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted By: rporter314
The problem you see is Republicans seem to make it a habit of doing or saying the indefensible while Democrats do not do it as often.
BS! That is a very partisan statement.
But... true? [See point #2]

Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Let me say it clearly .... if Pres Obama had done what Mr Trump has done and continues to do, I would be yelling loudly for impeachment and I suspect you would as well. The difference is you will not do the same for Mr Trump. Of course hypocrisy is not a crime. It simply demonstrates a lack of objectively and maybe integrity.

You are wrong! There were many Republicans/Conservatives calling for Pres. Obama to be impeached. I did not join them in their folly. I didn't do that, when the Republicans/Conservatives were calling for the impeachment of Clinton or Obama, because to do so was and is a waste of time, effort, and political capital that can be put to better use.
Would that I had a time machine to fact-check this assertion.

Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted By: rporter314
I have no problem skewering the unethical or criminal politicians of any persuasion, however I suspect many of what you believe are problems are really differences of political opinions.

Should I start holding my breath now? The huge and growing gap in the differences of political opinions is the problem. A problem that is nurtured by most of the people here on the Rant.
[See point #2.]

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#315498 - 09/17/19 07:12 AM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17115
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Mr Trump has crossed all the lines for impeachable offenses. Had Pres Obama crossed the same lines I would have called for his impeachment.
Only in your opinion has Trump crossed all the lines and must be impeached. Your claim that he has does not impress nor convince that he has.
Given the public record available, I am of the impression that nothing Trump has done, or could do, would be sufficient to "convince" you that he should be impeached. That is the most thoroughly partisan position possible.

In contrast, I submit:
1) PRESIDENT TRUMPíS APPARENT CAMPAIGN FINANCE CRIMES, COVER-UP, AND CONSPIRACY (CREW);
2) The 10 instances of possible obstruction in Mueller report (apnews);
3) Emoluments violations in Blumenthal, et al. v. Trump;
4) Self-dealing corruption... so many they can't be adequately catalogued (Not just Pence: Trump, PACs or governmen...days since 2017 (WaPo, subscription);
5) Failure to follow the oath of office by not appointing cabinet-level and other officials, Trump's Empty Cabinet (Politico);
6) Making false statements under oath.

Mind you, this is just a preliminary list.

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#315504 - 09/17/19 02:00 PM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: NW Ponderer]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1604
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Mr Trump has crossed all the lines for impeachable offenses. Had Pres Obama crossed the same lines I would have called for his impeachment.
Only in your opinion has Trump crossed all the lines and must be impeached. Your claim that he has does not impress nor convince that he has.
Given the public record available, I am of the impression that nothing Trump has done, or could do, would be sufficient to "convince" you that he should be impeached. That is the most thoroughly partisan position possible.

In contrast, I submit:
1) PRESIDENT TRUMPíS APPARENT CAMPAIGN FINANCE CRIMES, COVER-UP, AND CONSPIRACY (CREW);
2) The 10 instances of possible obstruction in Mueller report (apnews);
3) Emoluments violations in Blumenthal, et al. v. Trump;
4) Self-dealing corruption... so many they can't be adequately catalogued (Not just Pence: Trump, PACs or governmen...days since 2017 (WaPo, subscription);
5) Failure to follow the oath of office by not appointing cabinet-level and other officials, Trump's Empty Cabinet (Politico);
6) Making false statements under oath.

Mind you, this is just a preliminary list.
But your using a bunch of partisan sources of allegations is a reason to believe Pres. Trump should be impeached? What a crock of s***! That you hide your blatant partisanship behind a facade of intellectualism does not impress me nor does it convince me to believe you. Get the f__k off your high horse! You are not the freaking genius you think you are!
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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