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#315564 - 09/17/19 09:55 PM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: NW Ponderer]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
There are somethings that need to be torn down. The administrative state might one of them. If after it has been torn down but it shouldn't have been it can be rebuilt. Tearing down a lot of what our government does is not a bad idea.
...
Remember I'm a conservative and conservatives don't like change.
I'm hoping that this was intended as a joke...?

The suggestion to tear things down wasn't but the comment about my conservatism was.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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#315566 - 09/17/19 11:23 PM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10148
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Specifically, what do you want to tear down? What is "the administrative state"?
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#315568 - 09/18/19 12:05 AM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17387
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
There are somethings that need to be torn down. The administrative state might one of them. If after it has been torn down but it shouldn't have been it can be rebuilt. Tearing down a lot of what our government does is not a bad idea.
...
Remember I'm a conservative and conservatives don't like change.
I'm hoping that this was intended as a joke...?

The suggestion to tear things down wasn't but the comment about my conservatism was.
Whew. Glad I got that right.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#315571 - 09/18/19 12:13 AM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42746
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


Rightwingers exhibit “retro backlash.”

Quote:
A feeling especially among the older generation, white men, and less educated sectors, who sense decline and actively reject the rising tide of progressive values, resent the displacement of familiar traditional norms, and provide a pool of supporters potentially vulnerable to populist appeals.

Harvard.edu
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#315573 - 09/18/19 01:08 AM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack

Thanks for telling me why I stopped being a member of the SWP. The only problem is that that is not why I left the SWP. I left the SWP because I made an extensive study of their literature and realized that it was wrong.

My return to conservatism was gradual. Before I became a Republican again I was a grassroots member of the DFL. Hardly a jump to the extreme right. No, your brother and I not a "matched set."


Tell us all what was so terrible about the DFL.
I just looked at your VoteSmart profile and found ZERO about your affiliation with them. Was this during the Paul Wellstone era?

Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack

As someone who has spent a lifetime in politics and especially one who was either working on a campaign or been a candidate my goal has always been to build a winning coalition. In the districts I was a candidate for the state legislature in were 60% Democrats, 30% Republican and 10% independents. To even get the GOP endorsement I had to be liberal a lot of issues, which I still am.


Such as?

Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack

The GOP has been in charge for 40 years? Is that why Nancy Pelosi was the Speaker of the House during George W. Bush's administration? Is that why Obamacare passed? No Republican voted for it. Is that why Obamacare is still the law? Because will we did have control of Congress the Republicans couldn't get it repealed.


Pelosi was nominated Speaker in 2006. In 2010 that ended and she did not get the gavel again until 2018. Whoop-dee-do.
Obamacare passed because healthcare had gotten so bad that NOBODY in their right mind wanted things to continue on the current path, but guess what?
We're back or very nearly back to the way things were prior to the ACA now, thanks to TrumpCare!

WELCOME TO TRUMPCARE

Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market Under Trump

Quote:
"Another customer said she was reminded of the John Grisham novel The Rainmaker, in which an insurance company has a policy of rejecting every claim."



Should Republicans BE ABLE to repeal something that contradicts the will of the people, the voters?
Is that part of what you want to tear down?

Bryan Bjornson's Issue Positions (Political Courage Test)

Quote:
Bryan Bjornson has refused to provide voters with positions on key issues covered by the 2016 Political Courage Test, despite repeated requests from Vote Smart and voters like you.


This was very interesting...you HOLD NO POSITIONS, none which are discernible, because you apparently refused to provide any answers.

All I did was Google your name, in an effort to FIND your positions.
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"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

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#315574 - 09/18/19 01:26 AM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10148
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Jeepers Jeffery, are you saying that the excellent Senator is making temious claims regarding his political provenance?
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

Top
#315579 - 09/18/19 05:42 AM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Senator, where do you find the energy to build so many "no true Scotsman" monuments?
This keys directly into that thing about extremists again, where you became a follower of the SWP, had a scream-worthy meltdown when THEIR extremism didn't pan out, and immediately went to the other extreme on the other side.


Thanks for telling me why I stopped being a member of the SWP. The only problem is that that is not why I left the SWP. I left the SWP because I made an extensive study of their literature and realized that it was wrong.

My return to conservatism was gradual. Before I became a Republican again I was a grassroots member of the DFL. Hardly a jump to the extreme right. No, your brother and I not a "matched set."
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Tell us all what was so terrible about the DFL.
I just looked at your VoteSmart profile and found ZERO about your affiliation with them. Was this during the Paul Wellstone era?

There was and is nothing terrible about them. The views of the DFL were sufficiently different from mine that I decided to leave the DFL. The VoteSmart that you looked at was from the 2016 elections. The picture of me is from my 2014 race for the state legislature. In 2016 I knew that my chances of winning against an incumbent Democrat were very small so I did not actively campaign that year. That is why I didn't respond to the VoteSmart political courage test. Since in 2014 & 16 I was running as a Republican there is not going to be anything about my affiliation with the DFL.

Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack

As someone who has spent a lifetime in politics and especially one who was either working on a campaign or been a candidate my goal has always been to build a winning coalition. In the districts I was a candidate for the state legislature in were 60% Democrats, 30% Republican and 10% independents. To even get the GOP endorsement I had to be liberal a lot of issues, which I still am.


Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Such as?
Various school board and education issues.

Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack

The GOP has been in charge for 40 years? Is that why Nancy Pelosi was the Speaker of the House during George W. Bush's administration? Is that why Obamacare passed? No Republican voted for it. Is that why Obamacare is still the law? Because will we did have control of Congress the Republicans couldn't get it repealed.


Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Pelosi was nominated Speaker in 2006. In 2010 that ended and she did not get the gavel again until 2018. Whoop-dee-do.
Obamacare passed because healthcare had gotten so bad that NOBODY in their right mind wanted things to continue on the current path, but guess what?
We're back or very nearly back to the way things were prior to the ACA now, thanks to TrumpCare!

WELCOME TO TRUMPCARE

Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market Under Trump

Quote:
"Another customer said she was reminded of the John Grisham novel The Rainmaker, in which an insurance company has a policy of rejecting every claim."

If the people really wanted Obamacare they wouldn't be required, by law, to have it. The best way to fix healthcare is to get our government out of it. The healthcare mess was created by a 1942 government freeze on wages and prices. FDR's Executive Order #9328

Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas

Should Republicans BE ABLE to repeal something that contradicts the will of the people, the voters?
Is that part of what you want to tear down?
Obamacare was never "will of the people." [quote]The best evidence for O'Reilly's position was the most recent poll from the Kaiser Family Foundation and Harvard School Of Public Health. In its most recent tracking poll, it found that 50 percent of respondents had an unfavorable view of the law, while 41 percent viewed it favorably. But another 9 percent said they didn't know or didn't want to answer. Certainly, the largest category in this poll didn't like health care, but if you combined supporters with the unknowns, you do get an even split.


Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Bryan Bjornson's Issue Positions (Political Courage Test)

Bryan Bjornson has refused to provide voters with positions on key issues covered by the 2016 Political Courage Test, despite repeated requests from Vote Smart and voters like you.

This was very interesting...you HOLD NO POSITIONS, none which are discernible, because you apparently refused to provide any answers.

All I did was Google your name, in an effort to FIND your positions.
I already answered this question. However, Jeffery felt compelled to ask it again so I will answer it again.
Quote:
The VoteSmart that you looked at was from the 2016 elections. The picture of me is from my 2014 race for the state legislature. In 2016 I knew that my chances of winning against an incumbent Democrat were very small so I did not actively campaign that year. That is why I didn't respond to the VoteSmart political courage test. Since in 2014 & 16 I was running as a Republican there is not going to be anything about my affiliation with the DFL.
Why do I need to answer it twice in the same post? Why should I answer any of his questions. He did tell me why my political views have changed. Oh, maybe because his answer on why my political have changed is completely wrong I will answer it, twice.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

Top
#315581 - 09/18/19 07:59 AM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10148
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Senator Hatrack,
Trying again...
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
There are somethings that need to be torn down. The administrative state might one of them. If after it has been torn down but it shouldn't have been it can be rebuilt. Tearing down a lot of what our government does is not a bad idea.

Originally Posted By: logtroll
Specifically, what do you want to tear down? What is "the administrative state"?
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

Top
#315583 - 09/18/19 02:25 PM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: logtroll]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Senator Hatrack,
Trying again...
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
There are somethings that need to be torn down. The administrative state might one of them. If after it has been torn down but it shouldn't have been it can be rebuilt. Tearing down a lot of what our government does is not a bad idea.

Originally Posted By: logtroll
Specifically, what do you want to tear down? What is "the administrative state"?
Yes, the administrative state should be torn down.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

Top
#315584 - 09/18/19 02:30 PM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10148
Loc: One of the Mexicos
What "administrative state"? How would you like to tear it down?
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

Top
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