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#315591 - 09/18/19 04:17 PM Re: Government. What is it and why do we need it? [Re: logtroll]
chunkstyle Online   content
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Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1757
Seemed like an oxymoron. Like 'ergonomic electric chairs' or Hollywood review quotes. 'Horribly delightful!", etc....

Socialism should be democratic. In my mind, it's the most democratic idea. Facism and corporate boards, on the other hand, can't be democratic by their very nature and organization. Vertical vs. Horizontal. Consolidated power vs. defused power.

Aren't we conjoining two states of political/economic organization?

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#315594 - 09/18/19 05:10 PM Re: Government. What is it and why do we need it? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15504
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Socialism should be democratic.


A magical concept! We could call it a social democracy!

It's a place where the people decide just how much capitalism will be tolerated.

Have I told you about my plan for world domination...?
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde

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#315595 - 09/18/19 05:32 PM Re: Government. What is it and why do we need it? [Re: logtroll]
chunkstyle Online   content
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1757
Yeah,

It's a weird thing but after 60 years of propaganda, most americans can't tell you what it is, let alone why it's bad.
Same with capitalism, IMO.

Sorta Gromski's I suppose. The dominant class creates it's own cultural narratives that re-enforce it's dominant position, blah, blah, blah...

It's fun to watch the contradictions stack up to the point of the absurd in order to reconcile why people can't have health care or a decent transport system or community owned utilities, etc...

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#315602 - 09/18/19 06:57 PM Re: Government. What is it and why do we need it? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15504
Loc: Florida
Funny thing about hiring a business man to run a government. He never runs government like he would a business, you know...to make a profit.

He runs it so that businesses can make more money. Rather than seeking newer or better sources of income he starts charging his best customers less. And cutting services to his regular small accounts to pay for it.

Suddenly he's running $Trillion dollar deficits and headed to bankruptcy court.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde

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#315617 - 09/19/19 05:20 AM Re: Government. What is it and why do we need it? [Re: logtroll]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8783
Loc: North San Diego County
Corporations actually are a form of Democracy: Each share gets a vote, votes determine board members, and board members vote for a CEO. The main difference, is that you can buy votes by buying more than one share. So it's quite like American Democracy!

Capitalism doesn't work without government regulation. If not for laws, Johnson & Johnson would make baby oil from real babies. An extreme example, but also true in the greater sense. Without government to keep the market fair, all capitalism would be a giant con game and worse. They already kill a small number of people to make money. (Or maybe a large number of people, like the tobacco companies.) They would be killing people right and left without laws and government, if it made them money. Supposedly, making money for shareholders is each corporation's reason for existence.

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#315632 - 09/19/19 05:39 PM Re: Government. What is it and why do we need it? [Re: pondering_it_all]
chunkstyle Online   content
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1757
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Corporations actually are a form of Democracy: Each share gets a vote, votes determine board members, and board members vote for a CEO. The main difference, is that you can buy votes by buying more than one share. So it's quite like American Democracy!



You've just described a form of oligarchy. Oligarchy is not a form democracy.

We are in the advanced stages of oligarchy thanks to neoliberalism.

Iron Law of Oligarchy

But hey!, the malls are open. S'all good.


Edited by chunkstyle (09/19/19 05:42 PM)

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#315714 - 09/22/19 04:55 AM Re: Government. What is it and why do we need it? [Re: logtroll]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8783
Loc: North San Diego County
That was meant to be a criticism of Citizens United, and it's ruinous effect on Democracy.

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