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#315220 - 09/12/19 11:31 AM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17415
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Because our government is run by human beings it is not, and never will be, perfect. There will always be corruption and fraud. My concern is how can we reduce it as much as possible? This is being asked not to point fingers or blame either party but to try find a bipartisan solution to a bipartisan problem.

Churn. We need to remove the current Republican and Democratic leadership and replace them with better leaders. Let's start by removing all the Republicans and see how that works. There's 90% of the problem. I mean that sincerely. Trump is deeply, deeply flawed in every possible respect, and he has surrounded himself with the worst swamp creatures the country has ever seen. The Republican House and Senate are just as bad (and where a lot of Trump's swamp creatures came from). Hard to place the blame on Democrats as they have been out of power, so it will be harder to determine who has to go.

One huge obstacle to reform is the corrupt Supreme Court majority. The number of really, really bad and purely partisan decisions is growing rapidly (including yesterday). As examples, Rucho v. Common Cause, Citizens United, Shelby County v. Holder, Bush v. Gore. One the current court, "Whatever idiosyncratic legal views Gorsuch and Kavanaugh might otherwise hold, Trump’s Supreme Court nominees both appear firmly committed to one of the Roberts Court’s great projects: maximizing conservative structural advantages in the American political system." The Supreme Court Steps to the Right (New Republic). At least 2 members are just unsuited for the post - Thomas, and Alito (and probably Gorsuch). But, they can't be replaced until Trump and Pence are gone and a Democrat is in office, so... there is that.

There's no doubt we are in for a really, really rough patch over the next decade. Replacement will take time. The biggest suggestion: Vote blue, no matter who. The rot goes all the way to the States. The biggest flaw with the OP is the false equivalence concept that "it is bipartisan." While nominally true, the bulk of the problem is on one side of the aisle. As long as money is the driving force, though, it will continue to be the primary issue.

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#315221 - 09/12/19 11:53 AM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
‘Blue no matter who’.
What a brain dead way to vote.
I would love to examine the accomplishments of the Democrats when they were In power. That tends to be a sore subject here. Usually dismissed with a ‘yes, but republicans!...’
Money is not speech. Money is power. Those that want to kiss up to power will insist it’s the former and not the latter.
There’s the ‘free and fair elections’ amendment being worked on at the grass roots level in much the same way as most every other ‘impossible’ amendment has gotten passed.
At the street level, it has insane popular support but like most popular ideas, it dies in state house committees by the corporate state opposed to it.
To me, the fight is between democracy and corporate oligarchy with democracy trailing in these late innings. Corruption is how the corporate state buys off democracy.


Edited by chunkstyle (09/12/19 11:55 AM)

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#315223 - 09/12/19 12:43 PM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43128
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
... The Republican House and Senate are just as bad (and where a lot of Trump's swamp creatures came from)...

I see things as Trump is using Fox News as an employment Temp Agency. Hmm
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#315224 - 09/12/19 12:48 PM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: chunkstyle]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17415
Oh, my brain is working fine. Especially those higher logical functions. wink How's that third-party thing working out?

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#315225 - 09/12/19 12:49 PM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: chunkstyle]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43128
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
...Money is not speech. Money is power. Those that want to kiss up to power will insist it’s the former and not the latter...

Freshman Congresswoman Katie Porter (D-CA) states in an interview that she was surprised to realize just how much Congress is set-up for and by the wealthy.

I love Katie, I've seen her several times in interviews - she's very smart, but the best part - she's funny and witty. smile
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#315238 - 09/12/19 01:23 PM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17415
Katie Porter is one of my favorites. Hands down.

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#315240 - 09/12/19 01:33 PM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10285
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Because our government is run by human beings it is not, and never will be, perfect. There will always be corruption and fraud. My concern is how can we reduce it as much as possible? This is being asked not to point fingers or blame either party but to try find a bipartisan solution to a bipartisan problem.

Maybe there could be sanctions on politicians for lying.
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#315241 - 09/12/19 01:45 PM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10285
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Maybe sanctions for corruption and fraud, instead of not being able to indict and prosecute corrupt fraudsters while they are still in office.
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#315242 - 09/12/19 01:49 PM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Oh, my brain is working fine. Especially those higher logical functions. wink How's that third-party thing working out?


I heard the Green Party doubled its turnout in 2016 and expanded into more states. I’m affiliated with the largest growing unaffiliated and welcome the gutting of the center though.
How’d 2016 turn out for your center NWP?...

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#315244 - 09/12/19 04:00 PM Re: What Can Be Done About The Bipartisan Corruption In Our Government? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Replacement will take time. The biggest suggestion: Vote blue, no matter who. The rot goes all the way to the States. The biggest flaw with the OP is the false equivalence concept that "it is bipartisan." While nominally true, the bulk of the problem is on one side of the aisle.

To suggest that people vote exclusively for one party will not fix the problem. Denying that your party is responsible will not fix the problem. Blaming our President will not fix the problem.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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