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#315721 - 09/22/19 02:48 PM The Trump/Biden/Ukraine thing
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9585
Loc: One of the Mexicos
WHOA!!!

Quote:
The Ukraine allegations against Trump are included in the whisteblower's complaint that the office of Director of National Intelligence is refusing to release to Congress.

In calling for such a release, Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., top-ranking Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, cited reports that Trump threatened to withhold military aid from Ukraine if it did not investigate Biden.

“If media reports are correct that President Trump delayed military aid appropriated by Congress in order to get Ukraine to investigate a political opponent, it’s difficult not to see that as an abuse of presidential authority, plain and simple," she said.

First I've seen that Trump was using extortion to get what he wanted from the Ukraine.


Edited by logtroll (09/22/19 03:47 PM)
Edit Reason: needed to point out the highlight for any slow-witted readers
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#315722 - 09/22/19 02:52 PM Re: The Trump/Biden/Ukraine thing [Re: logtroll]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42120
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Quote:
WHOA!!!

Quote:
The Ukraine allegations against Trump are included in the whisteblower's complaint that the office of Director of National Intelligence is refusing to release to Congress.

In calling for such a release, Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., top-ranking Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, cited reports that Trump threatened to withhold military aid from Ukraine if it did not investigate Biden.

“If media reports are correct that President Trump delayed military aid appropriated by Congress in order to get Ukraine to investigate a political opponent, it’s difficult not to see that as an abuse of presidential authority, plain and simple," she said.


No duh. coffee

...but topic is deserving of its own thread. smile
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#315723 - 09/22/19 02:53 PM Re: The Trump/Biden/Ukraine thing [Re: logtroll]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42120
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


In an Op-Ed piece for the Washington Post, Ukrainian journalist and political activist writes of how Guiliani has dragged newly elected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky into the 2020 US presidential election:

Guiliani's disinformation and the manipulation of facts
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#315726 - 09/22/19 03:48 PM Re: The Trump/Biden/Ukraine thing [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17184
Originally Posted By: pdx rick


In an Op-Ed piece for the Washington Post, Ukrainian journalist and political activist writes of how Guiliani has dragged newly elected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky into the 2020 US presidential election:

Guiliani's disinformation and the manipulation of facts

[Rick, my friend, it would be helpful if you identified the publication of the cite. WaPo has a subscription model, and I've used up my freebies already following links. (Not your fault, just reality.) So I can't access the cite. frown That's why I try to post the source when I provide links.]

Unlike many, I never respected Giuliani. He's always been a real sleazeball and inarticulate oaf. He just had the misfortune of being Mayor of New York when 9/11 happened and everyone was forgiving at that time. It was such a shock to the nation, we elevated anyone who was in charge, even if they were incompetent.

But this Ukraine thing is going to (should) be the undoing of the administration when it comes out. The purpose of the delay tactic is to "normalize" it - or at least get us used to it so it doesn't shock us so bad. It worked for pussygate, Trump tower, the Mueller report and the numerous other outrages of this administration, so it is following that playbook. It appears pretty clear, though, that what Trump was offering was a bribe of US money for political support. I think he figured it worked for Putin, so that must be how the game is played. That is his go-to operational method. Carrot and stick. I'll sanction you if you don't cooperate with my political program, or reward you if you do. He doesn't understand/care if that is just stupid or outright dishonest. It is how a bully with resources operates.

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#315728 - 09/22/19 04:00 PM Re: The Trump/Biden/Ukraine thing [Re: NW Ponderer]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9585
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
... what Trump was offering was a bribe of US money for political support.

Apparently he threatened to withhold Congressionally authorized support, which puts it in the category of extortion, as well as usurpation of the House's power of the purse.

Of course, the usurpation issue is Congress's best cause for impeachment. The fact that he is stealing the money in an extortion racket makes it more compelling than stealing money for The MAGA Wall through a fake national emergency declaration is.
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#315729 - 09/22/19 04:30 PM Re: The Trump/Biden/Ukraine thing [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42120
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Rick, my friend, it would be helpful if you identified the publication of the cite. WaPo has a subscription model, and I've used up my freebies already following links. (Not your fault, just reality.) So I can't access the cite. frown That's why I try to post the source when I provide links.].

Rudy Giuliani accused me of exposing Paul Manafort’s Ukraine deals to help U.S. Democrats. That’s a lie.
Washington Post

Quote:
Serhiy Leshchenko is a Ukrainian journalist and political activist.

On Aug. 19, 2016, I convened a news conference in Kiev at which I revealed previously secret records of payments made by the former pro-Russian president Viktor Yanukovych to Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort. (Yanukovych fled the country in February 2014 after he was toppled by our Revolution of Dignity, a popular uprising on the streets of Kiev.) The information came from the “black ledger of the Party of Regions,” which was obtained by an anonymous source in the burned-out ruins of the headquarters of Yanukoych’s party. Yanukovych had used the ledger to keep records of his illegal transactions. At that time, although I was a member of parliament, I continued to combine that position with my journalistic work, which is allowed by the laws of Ukraine.


Quote:
I will always be angry at Manafort. His work contributed greatly to Yanukovych’s election victory in 2010; Yanukovych then used his position as president to enrich himself and his inner circle. I have no doubt that Yanukovych paid Manafort for his services out of the funds he robbed from Ukrainian taxpayers.


Quote:
Corruption is harmful whether it takes place America or Ukraine. My desire to expose Manafort’s doings was motivated by the desire for justice. Neither Hillary Clinton, nor Joe Biden, nor John Podesta, nor George Soros asked me to publish the information from the black ledger. I wanted to obtain accountability for the lobbyist whose client immersed Ukraine in a blood bath during the Revolution of Dignity and the subsequent war in eastern Ukraine, when Yanukovych called on Russia to send troops.

A federal judge in the United States later sentenced Manafort to 7½ years in prison for his many crimes. Among his offenses was his non-payment of taxes on undeclared income whose origins were revealed by Yanukovych’s secret accounts.


Quote:
Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine the Manafort revelations would become fodder for the U.S. elections in 2020. President Trump’s lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani, the mouthpiece of this campaign, is not only attempting to rehabilitate Manafort but is also working to undermine U.S. relations with Ukraine, which has been confronting Russian aggression on its own for more than five years. Giuliani and his associates are trying to drag our newly elected president, Volodymyr Zelensky, into a conflict between two foreign political parties, drastically limiting Ukraine’s room for maneuver in respect to the United States, perhaps its most important international partner.


Quote:
Giuliani attempted to visit Ukraine in May 2019 with the express purpose of involving Zelensky in this process. His aim was quite clear: He was planning to ask Zelensky to intervene in an American election on the side of Trump.

Zelensky refused, forcing Giuliani to cancel his trip. Shortly after that, Giuliani went on Fox News, where he called me “[an enemy] of the president [and] of the United States.” This accusation had a devastating effect on my political career. I had been helping Zelenksy’s team since January — but now Giuliani’s smear cost me a job in the new administration. Not wanting to create problems for Zelensky, I withdrew from consideration.


Quote:
Giuliani's entire approach is built on disinformation and the manipulation of facts. Giuliani has developed a conspiracy theory in which he depicts my revelations about Manafort as an intervention in the 2016 U.S. election in favor of the Democratic Party. In his May interview on Fox, Giuliani even claimed that I was convicted of a corresponding crime.


Quote:
The facts do not support this allegation. Here’s the truth: The administrative court — which has long had a reputation as the most corrupt in Ukraine — ruled in December 2018 that I had acted illegally by disclosing the payments to Manafort. We appealed, and the verdict was suspended. And in the summer of this year, we won the appeal and the court’s decision was completely annulled. The appeal concluded that all the charges against me were unfounded, and even obliged my opponents to reimburse me for $100 in legal costs.

But Giuliani continues to quote this court decision even though it never attained legal force.

Giuliani also persists in claiming that the “black ledger” is a fake. He stated this most recently just a few days ago in an interview with CNN. In fact, the book is a genuine document. Expert examinations have confirmed the authenticity of the signatures shown in it.


Quote:
Giuliani has also been attacking the fearless activists from our Anti-Corruption Action Center, who managed to uphold their ideals even though they were persecuted by the previous government of President Petro Poroshenko.

By repeating this lie, Giuliani is not only deceiving American citizens. He is not only intervening in Ukrainian politics, smearing parliamentarians and officials of the presidential administration. He is also trying to drag the new president of Ukraine into an American election, which is absolutely unacceptable.

I know that leaders of the three U.S. congressional committees that are now investigating the whistleblower case have asked the White House and the State Department to share all correspondence regarding the people involved in this story, including me. As a person who has had direct experience of many of these events, I express my readiness to testify to the U.S. Congress about what has been happening for the past six months in the gray zone of Ukrainian-American relations.
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#315730 - 09/22/19 04:35 PM Re: The Trump/Biden/Ukraine thing [Re: logtroll]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42120
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

There is no excuse for Nancy Pelosi not to publicly announce Impeachment hearings into this Ukraine matter.

As Conservatives say: "You got him this time."

Yes we do. smile
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#315735 - 09/22/19 05:04 PM Re: The Trump/Biden/Ukraine thing [Re: pdx rick]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15781
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Yes we do.


No we don't. Until that transcript is in the hands of the appropriate committees we have nothing but a newspaper article to base any charges on.

Even then it may not be the sure thing everybody is hoping it will be.

Remember Mueller?
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#315738 - 09/22/19 05:42 PM Re: The Trump/Biden/Ukraine thing [Re: logtroll]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42120
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


The internet is calling this the "Ukrainian One" scandal to rub in the face of Right-wingers debunked "Urnaium One" scandal.

smile
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#315739 - 09/22/19 05:44 PM Re: The Trump/Biden/Ukraine thing [Re: Greger]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42120
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Greger
Remember Mueller?

What happened there is Bill Barr got ahead of the release and debunked the Report before it was even released.

This is the pattern for this corrupt Administration - to get ahead of the bad news and spin the facts into a different direction.

Disinformation and the manipulation of facts is just what Rightwingers do. Hmm
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