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#316472 - 10/09/19 04:38 PM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: pondering_it_all]
Senator Hatrack Online   happy
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1583
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Quote:
Before an agency is eliminated a similar one in the private sector should be created or the agency is privatized so that those who it is helping do not suffer any adverse effects.


Boy, is that misguided and naive: So many private institutions that are supposed to be fulfilling certain functions are actually massively corrupt. Like the Local Red Cross that pays their officers several hundred thousand per year, or all the Police. Veterans, Firefighter, etc. charities that call on the phone and give less than 5% of their income to their "beneficiaries".
There are and always will be phony and dishonest charities. Greed is part of human nature. What I was suggesting is that private charities, even with the dishonest ones, can do more to help people than a government bureaucracy can.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
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#316475 - 10/09/19 05:25 PM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6836
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
private charities ... can do more to help people than a government bureaucracy

Unless you have some statistical data to support your claim I would suggest you rewrite it as .... You believe private charities etc etc.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#316478 - 10/09/19 05:35 PM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: rporter314]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17089
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Quote:
private charities ... can do more to help people than a government bureaucracy

Unless you have some statistical data to support your claim I would suggest you rewrite it as .... You believe private charities etc etc.

I agree. Evidence to support the assertion would be welcomed.
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A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#316481 - 10/09/19 05:54 PM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: rporter314]
Senator Hatrack Online   happy
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1583
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Quote:
private charities ... can do more to help people than a government bureaucracy

Unless you have some statistical data to support your claim I would suggest you rewrite it as .... You believe private charities etc etc.
Here is why I believe a private charity can do more to help people than a government bureaucracy can. A private charity is goal oriented. In order to get funding a private charity must have a definite plan of action and then follow that plan. If the private charity is not as successful as possible in doing what it sets out to do people stop donating money to it. A private charity is usually locally based. People don't like asking for money hence a private charity is accountable to those who donate to it. (With the the exceptions you mentioned earlier. Even then donations decline as the charities dishonesty is revealed.)

A government bureaucracy is not goal oriented. A government bureaucracy does not need get funding it is automatically funded with our taxes. A government bureaucracy does not want to solve the problem is was created to deal with. If it does the bureaucracy and it's funding will shrink. If government bureaucrats are found to be dishonest it is very difficult to fire them. But the bureaucracies funding, our taxes, keeps rolling in.

Thus a private charity has greater accountability than a government bureaucracy does. That greater accountability makes private charities better able to help people. This does not deny the fact that dishonest exists in private charities. But to think that a government bureaucracy will never have dishonest people in it is also naive.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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#316495 - 10/10/19 12:44 AM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: logtroll]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8771
Loc: North San Diego County
I think it's very hard to compare private charities to government agencies. The scale factor difference is huge. That's because the government agency has to help everyone who qualifies for their programs. They also tend be much more efficient than the thousands of local charities that it would take to replace them, and have a lot more oversight to watch for corruption and discrimination.

Can you imagine private charities taking over the work of the Social Security Administration? It would be chaos and kill hundreds of thousands of old folks. Libertarian ideas sound good, until you explain to people what they would have to give up. Then they look at you like you are peddling leprosy door-to-door.

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#316498 - 10/10/19 02:52 AM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
Greger Online   content

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15439
Loc: Florida
Quote:
A private charity is goal oriented.

Aye, it is, there's no doubt! And that goal is to put money into the hands of executives and administrators. This is what every major charity does best.
Churches...? Samesies! All you can count on is the money floating up to the top rather than being efficiently distributed to those who need it.

Look into some charities if you want to see how much actually goes to the needy. It hovers around 10% in most cases I think.

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#316499 - 10/10/19 02:58 AM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9441
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Are both sides equally corrupt?

No.
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You canít solve a problem without first understanding what the problem is.

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#316501 - 10/10/19 03:25 AM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: logtroll]
chunkstyle Online   content
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1719
Uhh....

Yes

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#316503 - 10/10/19 03:45 AM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: chunkstyle]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9441
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Not the politicians I know. The factual disconnect between your broad generalization and my direct experience deserves a closer look, donít you think?



Edited by logtroll (10/10/19 11:48 AM)
Edit Reason: Clarification
_________________________
You canít solve a problem without first understanding what the problem is.

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#316505 - 10/10/19 03:51 AM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6836
Loc: Highlands, Tx
LOL .... ROFLMAO

Are you for real????

I asked for stats to support your claim and you offered two paragraphs of why you BELIEVE something and then have the gall to start a third paragraph with "thus" as if a conclusion can be derived from your BELIEFS. Three paragraphs of worthless words juxtaposed simulating an argument.

And you wonder why liberals laugh at the sheis conservatives say.

The ghost of Hannity <----> geeeeeeeeeez
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ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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