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The Departed - 2019
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Partisans' Trust in Legislative Branch Has Shifted in Past Year
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Hyper-partisanship and irrationality
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#316461 - 10/09/19 01:41 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: NW Ponderer]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9441
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Trump’s strategy is to “normalize” his bad behavior and breaking of ethical norms so that it will seem unfair to take him to task. It is working splendidly with his cultists who defend everything he does (like porking pornstars while wifey is at home with the new baby and paying them $130K to keep quiet, and telling 12,500 egregious lies in a mere 800 days). Trump uses lies to make us believe that other Americans are the enemy - he is the Great Divider.

Everyone should ask themselves if King Kon’s campaign to normalize shittiness is working on you - I admit it is working on me to a degree. This is how one bad man can drag an entire country into the toilet.
_________________________
You can’t solve a problem without first understanding what the problem is.

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#316462 - 10/09/19 02:00 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9441
Loc: One of the Mexicos
The campaign against ethics began in earnest (to my observation) with Newt Gingrich and has led us to Trump, an absolute caricature of an indecent human being, as president. It is often said that "we are a nation of laws", but laws are useless without a solid ethical environment where people actually respect the law.
_________________________
You can’t solve a problem without first understanding what the problem is.

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#316465 - 10/09/19 03:19 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: Senator Hatrack]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17089
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Of course there is absolutely no possibility that the whistle blowers might be lying?
Um, no. A record of the phone call is in the public domain. Name one thing (there is, exactly, one) in the whistleblower complaint (also public) that is inaccurate.

Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
That they are partisan?
So what? You say that as if it had significance to the facts. Now, where does bias have have significance?
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
The DOJ said that a crime was not committed in Trump's call to the Ukrainian President. NPR DOJ
One modification: the Trump DoJ. Anyone with a modicum of legal training knows that this conclusion is not supported by the law. It is a political conclusion. Have you seen the memorandum? (Trick question)
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#316471 - 10/09/19 04:25 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: NW Ponderer]
perotista Offline
stranger

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 112
I'm sure polarization over the last 20 years has a lot to do with it. Each party views the other as out to destroy America. I don't think this started with Reagan. He and Tip O'Neal work great together, compromised and played the game of give and take. Of course Ronnie had to work with him since the Democrats controlled the house for all 8 of Reagan's years.

I think Hastert had more to do with polarization than Gingrich with his Hastert rule. Gingrich actually worked with Bill Clinton behind closed doors, one of the reason the Republicans kicked him out of the Speakership. It's been downhill ever since.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#316473 - 10/09/19 05:04 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: logtroll]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6836
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
Trump’s strategy is to “normalize” his bad behavior and breaking of ethical norms so that it will seem unfair to take him to task

I think I will try to refute that claim.

Mr Trump is a narcissist. His sole "strategy" in life is to present himself as the greatest human to have ever graced your TV or newspaper. His delusion is whatever he does is normal. He does not have to rationalize why he does what he does. He does it because he "knows" he is the greatest human to have ever lived.

Because his whole life is a delusion. the media has normalized the delusion they see and present as if he is a rational person. Remember, just because he is irrational does not mean he does not know how to replace lug nuts on a tire. Listen to all the reporters and commentators who offer rational explanations why he does what he does. Now recall the number of times reporters have stories about how he decided something. On a whim ... gut feeling ... and now an irritating phone call. Throw out logic and use Buddhist illogic. He only makes sense if you think with a narcissists cap on.

Your right in one sense. His defenders have accepted his behavior as "normal" and I presume rational (otherwise they would have 25th him). They have done this based on tribalism, and fear of THE BASE. I often wondered how reputedly smart people have not recognized the narcissism, until it dawned on me, most of the people and strong supporters have been long time acquaintances, so they would have been inured to his narcissism and probably never recognized it, just like the frog being boiled slowly.

I suppose one could make the case his actions have "normalized" people just like the frog, but that would Mr Trump has the intellectual wherewithal to formed high level rational political plans to disinform and intentionally lie to achieve the ad hoc recognized goal of normalization of aberrant presidential behavior. I can not accept that conclusion.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#316479 - 10/09/19 05:39 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: perotista]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17089
Originally Posted By: perotista
I'm sure polarization over the last 20 years has a lot to do with it. Each party views the other as out to destroy America. I don't think this started with Reagan. He and Tip O'Neal work great together, compromised and played the game of give and take. Of course Ronnie had to work with him since the Democrats controlled the house for all 8 of Reagan's years.

I think Hastert had more to do with polarization than Gingrich with his Hastert rule. Gingrich actually worked with Bill Clinton behind closed doors, one of the reason the Republicans kicked him out of the Speakership. It's been downhill ever since.
I won't quibble because it would take us too far afield. I'd say Nixon set it on the course and it has been downhill since. Reagan made it palatable, and Gingrich made it tactical. Hastert was just a corrupt pol with a weak grasp on his office.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#316485 - 10/09/19 08:01 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: logtroll]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   happy

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14298
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: logtroll

Everyone should ask themselves if King Kon’s campaign to normalize shittiness is working on you - I admit it is working on me to a degree. This is how one bad man can drag an entire country into the toilet.


Give examples of how it is working on you, because I see no evidence OF IT WORKING on YOU so far. So I am confused.
I know for sure it's not working on me. All I have to do is look at how much I've aged in the last two and a half years.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#316486 - 10/09/19 08:07 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: perotista]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   happy

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14298
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: perotista
I'm sure polarization over the last 20 years has a lot to do with it. Each party views the other as out to destroy America. I don't think this started with Reagan. He and Tip O'Neal work great together, compromised and played the game of give and take. Of course Ronnie had to work with him since the Democrats controlled the house for all 8 of Reagan's years.

I think Hastert had more to do with polarization than Gingrich with his Hastert rule. Gingrich actually worked with Bill Clinton behind closed doors, one of the reason the Republicans kicked him out of the Speakership. It's been downhill ever since.


I don't think that the Trump Party is out to destroy America.
In fact, I think that they are out to PRESERVE America, the part that is 100% unswervingly loyal to Trump.

I think that they are out to destroy the part of America that is not loyal to Trump. That's only PART of America.

I think that their dream is of an America that only consists of one party, the Trump Party.
Thus, I am forced to conclude that they want America spared, just so long as democracy and law is destroyed and they are left as the sole survivors in a reality show contest.

Now, if you can't call what's left of us after that contest is won by the Party of Trump America, THEN maybe it could be concluded that they are out to destroy America.
I just view the definition of the statement differently.

I believe that if they could erect a neutron bomb that only killed people that oppose Trump, they'd detonate it in a hot second.

And that would leave "America", their version of "America" fully intact.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#316487 - 10/09/19 08:09 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   happy

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14298
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Hastert was just a corrupt pol with a weak grasp on his office.


Coach Hastert sure had a strong grip on other things, however.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

Top
#316490 - 10/09/19 09:53 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
perotista Offline
stranger

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 112
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: perotista
I'm sure polarization over the last 20 years has a lot to do with it. Each party views the other as out to destroy America. I don't think this started with Reagan. He and Tip O'Neal work great together, compromised and played the game of give and take. Of course Ronnie had to work with him since the Democrats controlled the house for all 8 of Reagan's years.

I think Hastert had more to do with polarization than Gingrich with his Hastert rule. Gingrich actually worked with Bill Clinton behind closed doors, one of the reason the Republicans kicked him out of the Speakership. It's been downhill ever since.


I don't think that the Trump Party is out to destroy America.
In fact, I think that they are out to PRESERVE America, the part that is 100% unswervingly loyal to Trump.

I think that they are out to destroy the part of America that is not loyal to Trump. That's only PART of America.

I think that their dream is of an America that only consists of one party, the Trump Party.
Thus, I am forced to conclude that they want America spared, just so long as democracy and law is destroyed and they are left as the sole survivors in a reality show contest.

Now, if you can't call what's left of us after that contest is won by the Party of Trump America, THEN maybe it could be concluded that they are out to destroy America.
I just view the definition of the statement differently.

I believe that if they could erect a neutron bomb that only killed people that oppose Trump, they'd detonate it in a hot second.

And that would leave "America", their version of "America" fully intact.


There was a time when both Democrats and Republicans, pretty much all Americans viewed each party's goal as to make America secure, prosperous and ensure the future. Only each party had a different party to get there.

My have times changed.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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