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#316824 - 10/17/19 03:48 PM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: chunkstyle]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10328
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
S'funny how that logic keeps changing with you.

I really don't know what you are trying to accomplish with your statements in this topic. Seems like you want to grind an axe and find fault with me for some reason I can't divine.

Sorry...
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#316828 - 10/17/19 04:02 PM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: logtroll]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
Rilly NWP. That it?

What does it mean when you cage millions and take 'contributions' from industries profiting off of that activity? Is that fluster? We have people still serving in jail for crimes that are no longer illegal in some states. Should we go thru the record on that?

Wars of imperialism. Should we examine the record of congressional votes and presidential candidates on any of the ones waged in the last few decades? Do Neoliberals only vote for the good kind of state violence?

You want to examine only what you want to examine and disregard points made to the contrary. Your arguments are as arbitrary as anyone else's and carry to legitimate weight.

As one current candidate has pointed out, you can't take special interest money and expect to do the public interest when it may be counterproductive to that money. Here the Democratic Party structure is just as dubious and odious as republicans. Referencing a coupla scandals is proof of being able to reference a coupla scandals. It's evidence of nothing.

Neolibs (are we still pretending that there's no such political ideology?) do talk a better game when it comes to social issues but even that can be elusive when they are in contradiction of that special interest dollar.

And if we want to be real, it's the special dollar that calls the tune in politics and Republicans have no monopoly on that kind of corruption. Your box lid rules violation references not withstanding NWP, I hear there's human slave markets in Libya now. The inventory is being supplied by refugees from parts of the middle east. I don't remember Ghaddafi having slave markets. Wonder what happened to him and Libya...

Is that a rule violation or was that done all legal like too?









Edited by chunkstyle (10/17/19 07:05 PM)

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#316829 - 10/17/19 04:15 PM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: logtroll]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
Originally Posted By: logtroll


What are the actions you are taking to fix the problems? I asked this before and noted that your response was to call for some general conceptual things, in which I was unable to identify any action that I could take.



I am responding to your question being raised that seems tangential and outside the scope of the threads question.

As I recall, This thread got started by you as a result in my doing the same thing in another thread you started. I believe you frowned on my doing that there and took it on yourself to start this one . I simply wanted to take the opportunity to mention your doing it here. In your own discussion you started. (I'm politely saying your being hypocritical).

I'm happy to discuss solutions with you. Any time.

You may not like my ideas. Fine. Behaving as though I won't follow some set of rules regarding discussion is silly, arbitrary and limiting.

I mentioned Wolff's proposals, which are similar to other political economists but I started with Wolff. Again, we strayed but I didn't mind.

Different concepts of organizing got mentioned and which one I preferred.

Please refer me to the rules of discussion that I'm in violation of and I will mend my ways so that they are more sympathetic to your sensibilities.





Edited by chunkstyle (10/17/19 04:38 PM)

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#316830 - 10/17/19 04:17 PM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17263
Loc: Florida
Quote:
campaigns getting torpedoed by the national committee in favor of candidates larded up with hedge fund and fracking industry money.


DNC is most definitely corrupt, centrist, neo-liberal, power grubbing corporatists. But that doesn't exactly make them equal in their crimes to the Trump Family Syndicate. Not in my eyes anyway. They are your political rivals and they will do everything in their power to to keep centrist democrats in office. It's what their donors want. It's what political parties do.

You have a tendency to support long shot candidates then blame everybody but the candidate when they lose. The cool thing that you never seem to notice is that more and more progressive candidates are getting elected anyway. People like progressive ideas, Bernie has changed the world, not by getting elected but by getting word out that there is another way to do things! His candidacy may never catch fire but his ideas did! They not only caught fire but they burned themselves into the hearts of Americans. Bernie has drawn the map to our future. We'll make some wrong turns along the way(e.g. DJT) but we know what we need to do now.

Centrists aren't necessarily evil, they're just cautious.

Corruption...? Political maneuvering within the party to protect a preferred candidate isn't corruption, it's politics.

Corruption involves crime, like enlisting a foriegn country to interfere with an election. Like illegally withholding Congressionally approved funds to dig up dirt on a political rival.

Corruption is using your office for personal gain or accepting bribes for votes. Corruption is measured in indictments, convictions, and sentences. Corruption is measured in scandals, imbroglios, and public shaming. Corruption, once discovered, will usually destroy careers.

No, both sides are nowhere near equal.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#316831 - 10/17/19 04:35 PM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: Greger]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
Your putting words in my mouth.


I support my interests weather they are long shots or sho-ins.
You want to put off my pointing out the rigging of primary elections as sour grapes? O.K., whatever.

Citizens united is legal. Is it corrupting?

I'm not making this about Sanders or his viability as a candidate. Just noting an argument that has been made by him as it relates to Special Interest Inc. and who's side are you representing.


Centrists are what they are. The needles are buried in the red and they are slow walking any proposals to address this state of affairs. Wonder why?

Oh, right...

cuz republicans...

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#316837 - 10/17/19 05:04 PM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: logtroll]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356

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#316839 - 10/17/19 05:15 PM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17263
Loc: Florida
Nope...cuz money. Like ever since money and government first met.

Putting words in your mouth? I don't know who else you might support and can't speak to that. But Bernie is a longshot candidate. Perhaps I'm wrong to assume you might support other long shot candidates but I think it's a safe bet. You voted for Ralph Nader, remember?
Quote:
I support my interests weather they are long shots or sho-ins.

That your reasons might be personal greed is no matter to me. I think our goals still are the same. Rigging of primary elections? That's not corruption. It's politics. Bernie was a dark horse candidate in 2016. Not even a party member. Yet you want the DNC to treat him as an equal to a candidate they and almost everyone else considers a shoo in?

Are you blind to what Bernie accomplished? Where he has taken us? Try to get over 2016.Try to accept that Bernie isn't going to win this time either. Bernie he has changed the Democratic Party forever.

Spit out the sour grapes, I got sweet ones right over here.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#316849 - 10/17/19 06:55 PM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: chunkstyle]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10328
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Originally Posted By: logtroll
What are the actions you are taking to fix the problems? I asked this before and noted that your response was to call for some general conceptual things, in which I was unable to identify any action that I could take.

I am responding to your question being raised that seems tangential and outside the scope of the threads question.

As I recall, This thread got started by you as a result in my doing the same thing in another thread you started. I believe you frowned on my doing that there and took it on yourself to start this one . I simply wanted to take the opportunity to mention your doing it here. In your own discussion you started. (I'm politely saying your being hypocritical).

I'm happy to discuss solutions with you. Any time.

You may not like my ideas. Fine. Behaving as though I won't follow some set of rules regarding discussion is silly, arbitrary and limiting.

I mentioned Wolff's proposals, which are similar to other political economists but I started with Wolff. Again, we strayed but I didn't mind.

Different concepts of organizing got mentioned and which one I preferred.

Please refer me to the rules of discussion that I'm in violation of and I will mend my ways so that they are more sympathetic to your sensibilities.

My sensibilities are telling me that they don't understand what your problem is, that's all.
You be seein' sumthin' that I ain't be seein', brutha.
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#316850 - 10/17/19 06:58 PM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: Greger]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
You keep making it about me. It's not. It's a argument about what constitutes corruption.
WHen Dems do it, it's permissable under 'politics'.
When republicans do it, it's corruption.

If it's personal greed then both parties will accommodate you with that endeavor so long as you have the bread.

I vote my class interests and the record is pretty clear who's been serving whom.

Sorry for the confusion. Not all interests are personal. Should have been specific there.

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#316851 - 10/17/19 07:03 PM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: logtroll]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
Maybe I'm just not smart enough to understand your points. I can admit to that. I'm beginning to forget the point of this thread really.

Cept' Dem side good. Repub Bad.

O.K., you got me.

your right Logtroll.

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