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#316559 - 10/10/19 07:50 PM Turkey's Erdogan threatens to release millions of refugees into Europe over crit
HumblePi Offline
stranger

Registered: 08/15/19
Posts: 14

Turkey’s Erdogan threatens to release mi...Syria offensive

“We will open the gates and send 3.6 million refugees your way,” Erdogan said while speaking to officials from his ruling AK Party.

A Turkish offensive in northern Syria has been underway since Wednesday, with airstrikes and artillery fire targeting U.S.-allied Kurdish forces on the ground.

Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan threatened Europe with a flood of refugees if the continent’s leaders call the Turkish invasion of Syria an “occupation” during a speech to local lawmakers Thursday.
--------------------------------------------------------------

If there's still anyone on this planet that doesn't see this as Putin, Erdogan and Trump's plan to destabilize Europe and break up NATO allies, then you're just plain ignorant of the facts staring all of us in the face. Ask yourself why Trump would do this so abruptly without consulting even his Secretary of Defense. Ask yourself what Trump has to gain, what Erdogan has to gain and what Putin has to gain from ridding Syria of the Kurds and releasing 10k ISIS terrorists?

Yesterday, Trump was asked "what about these Kurdish refugees?" His answer, I guess they'll go to Europe, that's what they want." That's what Erdogan wants. That's what Putin wants. They want to flood Europe with refugees. They want Europe to suffer the consequences of a civil war in Turkey. They want Turkey completely rid of Kurds.

Incidentally, the day after Erdogan called Trump and basically ordered him to pull the US out of Northeast Syria, it just happened to be Vladimir Putin's birthday. This was most assuredly Trump's big birthday present for Putin.

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#316563 - 10/10/19 10:27 PM Re: Turkey's Erdogan threatens to release millions of refugees into Europe over crit [Re: HumblePi]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14617
Loc: Whittier, California
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#316564 - 10/10/19 10:29 PM Re: Turkey's Erdogan threatens to release millions of refugees into Europe over crit [Re: HumblePi]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14617
Loc: Whittier, California
It's almost like hearing:

"KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!"

_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#316565 - 10/11/19 12:30 AM Re: Turkey's Erdogan threatens to release millions of refugees into Europe over crit [Re: HumblePi]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6975
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
If there's still anyone on this planet that doesn't see this as Putin, Erdogan and Trump's plan to destabilize Europe and break up NATO allies
No I don't.

Mr Trump has never had a plan in his life. He is a narcissist who thrives on transactional interactions. What he does is only good at the moment and maybe the next 5 minutes.

Quote:
Ask yourself why Trump would do this so abruptly

Because he is a narcissist, he makes decisions in the moment. Check his history of decisions while occupying the WH. Many are on a whim, or gut feeling, or to impress a dinner guest, etc.

Quote:
what Trump has to gain
He would have in some sense fulfilled a campaign promise to bring troops home. This is big with his base. So what he gains is their unending loyalty, love, and praise. A narcissists dream.

As for the Turks and Russians, there is something different. The Turks have since the time of the Greeks had problems with the Kurds. The Turks want to subjugate the Kurds who want independence. There will be blood.

The Russians have no real interest in the Turkish-Kurdish problem except it could have a real impact on the ongoing Syrian civil war. With the Turks fighting the Kurds it would allow Assad to regain a stronger position and perhaps defeat the SDF.

Erdogan threatening Europe with ISIS fighters and refugees is not a plan but a reaction to European criticism.

Taken all together what I think we have is a complex situation in Syria. When Mr Trump pulled US troops from the border region he set into motion a complex machine which had the unintended consequences of improving political positions of Turkey, Russia, Iran, and Syria (and very possibly ISIS) at the expense of the SDF. While it may look like an elaborate plan, it strikes me more like sheer luck for the aforementioned states.

The situation on the Turkish border was like a row of upright dominoes waiting for someone to knock over the first one to set into motion America's lost stature and credibility in the world, improved geo-political positions of Turkey, Russia, Iran, and Syria, and the potential for re-emergence of ISIS. All of this because we have a narcissistic buffoon occupying the WH.
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ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#316566 - 10/11/19 02:00 AM Re: Turkey's Erdogan threatens to release millions of refugees into Europe over crit [Re: rporter314]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14617
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: rporter314

The Russians have no real interest in the Turkish-Kurdish problem except it could have a real impact on the ongoing Syrian civil war. With the Turks fighting the Kurds it would allow Assad to regain a stronger position and perhaps defeat the SDF.

Erdogan threatening Europe with ISIS fighters and refugees is not a plan but a reaction to European criticism.

Taken all together what I think we have is a complex situation in Syria. When Mr Trump pulled US troops from the border region he set into motion a complex machine which had the unintended consequences of improving political positions of Turkey, Russia, Iran, and Syria (and very possibly ISIS) at the expense of the SDF. While it may look like an elaborate plan, it strikes me more like sheer luck for the aforementioned states.

The situation on the Turkish border was like a row of upright dominoes waiting for someone to knock over the first one to set into motion America's lost stature and credibility in the world, improved geo-political positions of Turkey, Russia, Iran, and Syria, and the potential for re-emergence of ISIS. All of this because we have a narcissistic buffoon occupying the WH.


You just basically said as much as "Putin, Erdogan and Trump's plan to destabilize Europe and break up NATO allies" in so many words. smile

But you left out the fact that Russia seeks the upper hand in Kurdistan because the Kurds have a lot of oil.

Originally Posted By: Heather Cox Richardson
The Russian oil and gas giant, Rosneft, has been trying to gain access to develop Kurdish oil for years. Rosneft is one of the largest companies in the world, worth around $70 billion. It is the tool of Putin and Russian oligarchs, and after Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014, President Obama put sanctions on Rosneft to freeze its assets in the United States. These are the sanctions Putin wants lifted. Russia bought the Kurdish oil pipelines that run through Turkey almost two years ago, and if it can control the Kurdish oil fields, it will become the dominant foreign power in the Middle East, replacing the United States.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#316567 - 10/11/19 03:25 AM Re: Turkey's Erdogan threatens to release millions of refugees into Europe over crit [Re: rporter314]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42120
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: rporter314
No I don't.

Mr Trump has never had a plan in his life. He is a narcissist who thrives on transactional interactions. What he does is only good at the moment and maybe the next 5 minutes.

Be that as it may, Trump has aligned himself with two other evil guys whose plans have work out.

Hmm
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#316570 - 10/11/19 03:50 AM Re: Turkey's Erdogan threatens to release millions of refugees into Europe over crit [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6975
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
You just basically said as much

Not reading it right.

I am saying there was no plan. The US pullout can lead to the unintended consequence of what looks like a plan. The reasons are easy to map.

Mr Trump has no clue what a plan is. If you think there is a plan, then there would be a conspiracy between the three, but that would require the complicity of of Mr Clueless. The Turks have a long history of trying to ethnically cleanse the Kurds. The US had enlisted the Kurds as part of the SDF to fight ISIS. The Russians and Iranians have been long time supporters of Syria.

There does not have to be a plan for just the right consequences to happen which would benefit the players. It turns out if the US pulls out, it would set into motion a Turkish attack on the Kurds. O that in turn would benefit the Russians (for several reasons including the opportunity to control Kurdish oil), Iranians, and Syrians. The blowback would be re-emergence of ISIS and the real downside for America is no one in the world can trust the US.

I think people are looking for anything to pin the blame on Mr Trump. He is deserving of a lot, but I would think one should make sure he is actually involved.

This is an example of how a stupid move in a very complex geo-political situation can lead to results which endanger not only US security, but the entire region.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#316571 - 10/11/19 04:01 AM Re: Turkey's Erdogan threatens to release millions of refugees into Europe over crit [Re: rporter314]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14617
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Quote:
You just basically said as much

Not reading it right.

I am saying there was no plan. The US pullout can lead to the unintended consequence of what looks like a plan. The reasons are easy to map.

Mr Trump has no clue what a plan is. If you think there is a plan, then there would be a conspiracy between the three, but that would require the complicity of of Mr Clueless. The Turks have a long history of trying to ethnically cleanse the Kurds. The US had enlisted the Kurds as part of the SDF to fight ISIS. The Russians and Iranians have been long time supporters of Syria.

There does not have to be a plan for just the right consequences to happen which would benefit the players. It turns out if the US pulls out, it would set into motion a Turkish attack on the Kurds. O that in turn would benefit the Russians (for several reasons including the opportunity to control Kurdish oil), Iranians, and Syrians. The blowback would be re-emergence of ISIS and the real downside for America is no one in the world can trust the US.

I think people are looking for anything to pin the blame on Mr Trump. He is deserving of a lot, but I would think one should make sure he is actually involved.

This is an example of how a stupid move in a very complex geo-political situation can lead to results which endanger not only US security, but the entire region.


You're actually right, in that Trump merely acted in a knee jerk POSITIVE response to an opinion piece by conservative author Kurt Schlicter.

But what you're saying, in essence, is that Trump is just still acting true to form, in knee jerk response to stuff he sees in the ultra far right blogosphere and on Fox News.

Still, whether it's more a decision made by co-President du jour Schlicter or co-President Trump, the buck stops at the desk of the latter because he's the one the Murricans elected.

Okay, I'll buy that for a dollar. wink
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#316577 - 10/11/19 02:47 PM Re: Turkey's Erdogan threatens to release millions of refugees into Europe over crit [Re: HumblePi]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6975
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I don't usually use other people's ideas but here is a case which demonstrates how far out some Trump thinking gets.

David Frum posited the pull-out was actually a gauntlet thrown down by Mr Trump saying if you impeach I will destroy the world.

Sorry David but this presumes Mr Trump is a skilled Machiavellian politician who understands the consequences of his actions. Mr Trump is none of the above. Mr Trump has gone through life as a narcissistic bully ignoring consequences with impunity or accountability.

Mr Trump is transparent. He is the emperor with no clothes. There is no 4-d chess match. Not even checkers. He is a simpleton narcissist who requires, who needs, adulation and praise. Everything he does is directed to that end.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#316620 - 10/12/19 06:37 PM Re: Turkey's Erdogan threatens to release millions of refugees into Europe over crit [Re: rporter314]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15783
Loc: Florida
Quote:
He is a simpleton narcissist who requires, who needs, adulation and praise. Everything he does is directed to that end.


Don't forget the money thing...he also wants lots of money for taking this sh**ty job.
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