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The Departed - 2019
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Are both "sides" equally corrupt?
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What is "old"?
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Hyper-partisanship and irrationality
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Quinnipiac Loves Liz Warren
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#316504 - 10/10/19 03:46 AM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: logtroll]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41804
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


Conservatives sure did screw the pooch by selecting Trump as POTUS. The US is screwed, the Kurds are screwed, and the World is screwed.

If Conservatives never gain political power again - it will be too soon.
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#316526 - 10/10/19 01:37 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: logtroll]
Ujest Shurly Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 467
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
I think your use of the term "Conservatives" is the wrong brush, Republican sure have screwed the pooch and most Conservatives have also taken a taste. After all, there are conservative Democrats to the left of Independents, just as there are liberal Republicans to the right of Independents. Who are these liberal Republicans, possible some were and are Never Trumpers?


Edited by Ujest Shurly (10/10/19 01:37 PM)
_________________________
MAGA, impeach Trump.

Vote 2020

Life is like a PB&J sandwich. The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

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#316542 - 10/10/19 03:59 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: Ujest Shurly]
Greger Online   content

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15438
Loc: Florida
You make a good point, Ujest, a lot of Democrats are conservative. As socialists go I'm pretty conservative myself. We've all got our cautious side.

But conservative Democrats simply don't embrace the mindless radical Conservatism which has taken over the Republican party. It's become a religion to them if they aren't religious, or an extension of their evangelicalism if they are.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#316543 - 10/10/19 04:12 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: logtroll]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17089
Remember Bush's "compassionate conservative" oxymoron? This is why we get along so well, Greger. You recognize the various aspects and aren't afraid to accept some, and call the others out.

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#316560 - 10/10/19 08:18 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: Greger]
perotista Offline
stranger

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 112
I
Originally Posted By: Greger
You make a good point, Ujest, a lot of Democrats are conservative. As socialists go I'm pretty conservative myself. We've all got our cautious side.

But conservative Democrats simply don't embrace the mindless radical Conservatism which has taken over the Republican party. It's become a religion to them if they aren't religious, or an extension of their evangelicalism if they are.

I'm sitting here as a traditional conservative who has no use for these neo-conservatives or social or religious conservatives. I also also little to no use of their brand of what they call fiscal conservatism mainly because it isn't being fiscal responsible.

I don't like Trump and didn't vote for him, although I didn't vote for Hillary either. My disdain for both major party candidates made it important enough for me to go to the polls to officially register a vote against both by voting third party.

9 million folks did the same as I in 2016. Some 6% of the electorate. compare that to 2012 when 1.5% vote third party or 2008 when 1.2% did or even 2004 when 1.0% did.

I don't care what they call it, socialism, conservatism, liberalism, progressiveness, populism, Republican, democrat or what ever, all I want is good, competent government that works at keeping this country secure, prosperous, free with the knowledge this country is getting better each and every day. Weird ain't I.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#316561 - 10/10/19 10:24 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14298
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pdx rick


Conservatives sure did screw the pooch by selecting Trump as POTUS. The US is screwed, the Kurds are screwed, and the World is screwed.

If Conservatives never gain political power again - it will be too soon.


We liberals and Democrats NEED good sane Republicans and conservatives, to keep US honest, and to keep US from turning too weird.
But the same goes for vice versa. Conservatives must learn to accept liberals as having valid and honest values even if they don't always agree with them. By the same token, good liberals are what keeps conservatives from turning into what the Republican Party is today.

It's called "a healthy and balanced mix" and it requires both sides to accept the other, and to grant the other side the basic dignity deserved by "the loyal opposition". Arlo Guthrie became a registered Republican after 2004, but by 2012 he had already left the party.
His original reason for joining?

"We already had enough good Democrats. Someone needs to be the loyal opposition."

But if you can chase out an Arlo Guthrie, that's one thing.
A lot of perfectly normal conservatives won't even bat an eye at that but when people like Colin Powell are saying it, perhaps you should listen. When people like Rex Tillerson are saying it, perhaps you should listen.
When Fox News is saying it, perhaps you* should listen.

(*you meaning folks in the Party of Trump)

Someone is going to have to force the Trumpers to face the bad news sooner or later:
Your guy Trump is going down, you picked a very bad person as a candidate, he is very bad for you as well as us. He is bad for the country as a whole, he is bad for the entire world as a whole.
He's just really bad, awful isn't a strong enough word.
Trump is a monster, and he must go.

And it's not because he's a Republican either, and it's not so Dems get to win, it's much worse than that.
When you hear Democrats sounding wistful about the good old days when Bush 43 was President, that should tell you something.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#316562 - 10/10/19 10:26 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: perotista]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14298
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: perotista

I don't care what they call it, socialism, conservatism, liberalism, progressiveness, populism, Republican, democrat or what ever, all I want is good, competent government that works at keeping this country secure, prosperous, free with the knowledge this country is getting better each and every day. Weird ain't I.


S'funny...that's exactly what I want, too. Bow
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#316572 - 10/11/19 04:32 AM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17089
In the first skirmish of Trump's war against impeachment, Trump's forces are suffering multiple friendly fire casualties. Giuliani associates arrested while tryin...prosecutors say (Fox) "Parnas and Fruman were involved in Giuliani's efforts to urge Ukrainian officials to investigate Trump's political rival Joe Biden and his family. That effort was also discussed by Trump in a July call with Ukraine's president and is at the heart of the impeachment probe."; The Mystery of Rudy Giuliani’s Vienna Trip (Atlantic) "Why were Parnas and Fruman bound for Vienna? Why was Giuliani—if what he told me was true—planning to be in the same city a day later?

Giuliani finally sent me a text message at 4:18 p.m. ET: 'I can’t comment on it at this time.'"

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#316574 - 10/11/19 12:37 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1719
You might consider having some good sane leftists to keep liberals honest. Why do liberals consistently feel the need to break bread with fascists?
Sorry, conservatives.

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#316575 - 10/11/19 12:44 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1719
“War”
“Forces”
“Friendly fire”
“Casualties “

Jeebus, You make it sound so exciting.
Russia Gate redux. Wonder if it’s going to end with a bang or a whimper.

Personally, I’m not a big fan of sequels. They generally don’t live up to the hype of the original.

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