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#316476 - 10/09/19 05:26 PM What is "old"?
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17403
Bernie Sanders, 78, had a heart attack, but is back on the trail. Jimmy Carter, 95, had a fall - but went back to building the next day. No less than 5 of the presidential candidates are over 70. Clearly, 70 is not "too old" for some things in life.

I just had a birthday. My wife is looking at CCRCs (continuous care retirement communities). Frankly, neither of us qualifies by age, but she does have a disability. The average age of entry is 78 for a CCRC. I've got two decades before then, and nearly a decade before I qualify for Social Security. I'm barely old enough for AARP or an "adult community" (55 plus). Still, my son thinks I'm "old". He thinks I shouldn't climb a ladder on my own, or do a lot of activities (I don't want to do anyway) around the house.

I retired early. I love that. But, notwithstanding aches and pains, I don't think of myself as "old". How about others? When does one qualify as "old" in this day and age?

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#316483 - 10/09/19 06:44 PM Re: What is "old"? [Re: NW Ponderer]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10282
Loc: One of the Mexicos
My partner in the biochar stuff, the guy who does most of the inventing, a lot of the fabricating, and still has time for a side gig trying to help poor folks on the Mexico side of the border, is 80 - he works at least six 8+ hour days each week and is more productive that most people I know of any age. He lives in self administered poverty with basically only Social Security for income (we aren't making money yet). His strong life mission is climate change mitigation and the alleviation of poverty and suffering everywhere.
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
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#316484 - 10/09/19 07:56 PM Re: What is "old"? [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
In almost any other occupation I wouldn't worry about 78 being old.
I wouldn't even worry about 78 with a mild heart attack being too old.
With the office of POTUS however, the consequences of being sidelined by something that serious, are wide ranging and can potentially affect every man, woman and child on Earth.

So it's not that I think Bernie is too old, I think he's too old and frail, only for the job of POTUS. I think that he should finish out as many terms in the US Senate as he wants.
I even think that he should be a valued member of the incoming POTUS cabinet.
I'd even be okay with him being VP if paired with the right candidate.

And if by some miracle Bernie DOES WIN the Democratic Party nomination for POTUS, I WILL vote for him in November 2020, but unlike 2016, I won't support him in the primaries like I did last time around. My support goes to Liz Warren, who is clearly healthier.

It's not ageism...the man just had a heart attack.
I might (God forbid) have one just like his tomorrow, but I wouldn't dream of running for POTUS in the aftermath if I did.

If he gets the nomination, I will cast my vote for Bernie 2020 as POTUS but he is not my first choice and I would hope he would pick a more robust running mate, and I would worry about him surviving the job every single day he was in office.




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#316492 - 10/09/19 11:30 PM Re: What is "old"? [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ujest Shurly Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 646
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
Anything or anyone older than you is old. Anything or anyone younger than you is a Whippersnapper, or brand spanken new. Anything or anyone the same age as you is just right..

Agreed, the job of POTUS ages the holder; the stress of the job has a strong possibility of killing Bernie and Joe, and may just do the same to Liz. So, I would be voting for who ever is Bernie's or Joe's VP running mate. However, with Liz being the youngest of the three best candidates, I would vote for her, and she is in the best candidates pool that I could vote for.


Edited by Ujest Shurly (10/09/19 11:33 PM)
_________________________
Vote 2020!

Life is like a PB&J sandwich. The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

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#316493 - 10/10/19 12:28 AM Re: What is "old"? [Re: NW Ponderer]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10137
Loc: North San Diego County
I honestly think the job would kill Bernie. Just look at what it did to Obama.

But age in general is pretty irrelevant. My neighbor at 91 was climbing up on his roof to oil the rotary attic fans, and still crawling under his house to do some sort of maintenance job. He inspired me. My mom is 91 and can barely stand up with help. She broke both hips and never did the work to get moving again. She has a scooter and lives in an assisted living place that feeds them as much as they want three times a day. That and TV are her only activities.

The Social Security Life Table has useful data: I would say don't elect men over 80, because at that age their average life expectancy is 8.34 years. Likewise don't elect women after age 83, because their life expectancy is 8.04 years. I'm not sure what having a stent does to those numbers, but I'm pretty certain it's not good.

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#316494 - 10/10/19 12:39 AM Re: What is "old"? [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43120
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
I'm not sure what having a stent does to those numbers, but I'm pretty certain it's not good.

Welp, Dick Cheney is still alive and kicking, isn't he? coffee
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#316496 - 10/10/19 01:30 AM Re: What is "old"? [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17055
Loc: Florida
If this is about Bernie, He's not too old. He'd be an amazing president! His VP would likely be supportive of his policies and would continue on as if Bernie were in charge if The Bern happened to flame out. But, alas, we'll never find out because he's stuck in the polls and will not get the Democratic nod.

If it's about people in general...genetics is key. I'm old at 66. It looks like I'm going to need a caregiver twice a week to come in help me out because I'm not able to take care of myself anymore. My dad died at 72 and I'm in far worse shape than him at this age. Modern medicine might keep me alive a little longer than that but for the most part...I don't even buy green bananas anymore.

Every genetic flaw from both parents landed on me. And every poor life choice(and there were many) has come back to haunt me. Lungs are shot from smoking 2 packs a day for 30+ years, Liver is shot from drinking for forty years after I contracted HepC. I have degenerative joint disease from years of extreme sports and multiple major auto collisions. I spent a career in construction abusing my body for the sake of speed and money. I'm a physical wreck and this keyboard could go silent at any time. I fell down again yesterday. I've hurt my back pretty badly, looks like I'll lose a big toenail, and my good knee is banged up and will barely support me...
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#316497 - 10/10/19 01:30 AM Re: What is "old"? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 716
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
In almost any other occupation I wouldn't worry about 78 being old.
I wouldn't even worry about 78 with a mild heart attack being too old.
With the office of POTUS however, the consequences of being sidelined by something that serious, are wide ranging and can potentially affect every man, woman and child on Earth.

So it's not that I think Bernie is too old, I think he's too old and frail, only for the job of POTUS. I think that he should finish out as many terms in the US Senate as he wants.
I even think that he should be a valued member of the incoming POTUS cabinet.
I'd even be okay with him being VP if paired with the right candidate.

And if by some miracle Bernie DOES WIN the Democratic Party nomination for POTUS, I WILL vote for him in November 2020, but unlike 2016, I won't support him in the primaries like I did last time around. My support goes to Liz Warren, who is clearly healthier.

It's not ageism...the man just had a heart attack.
I might (God forbid) have one just like his tomorrow, but I wouldn't dream of running for POTUS in the aftermath if I did.

If he gets the nomination, I will cast my vote for Bernie 2020 as POTUS but he is not my first choice and I would hope he would pick a more robust running mate, and I would worry about him surviving the job every single day he was in office.





Last time around I started off supporting Jim Webb, when he didn't campaign, I switched to John Kasich, before finally voting third party against both major party candidates. This time I started off supporting John Hickenlooper, he has withdrawn. Now I'm keeping an eye on Amy Klobuchar and Tulsi Gabbard. Although I don't have much hope for either. I like Joe Biden, always have. As a senator and as VP. But I do wonder if he isn't getting a bit senile. Perhaps his time has come and gone. Even so, if Biden gets the nomination, I'd vote for him. Especially if his VP would be Gabbard or Klobuchar.

I would much prefer the Democrats go with a fresh young face. Not with someone 70 or older. Time to pass the baton to a younger generation. Anyway, here is the latest from RCP.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls...ation-6730.html

Staying with age, check out question 57 Ideal Presidential age - What is the ideal age for a person to serve as President of the United States?

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/x3neaunoh2/econTabReport.pdf
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#316528 - 10/10/19 01:42 PM Re: What is "old"? [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ujest Shurly Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 646
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
It is not physical activity in the job, but stress. Stress is known to cause elevated hormone levels and inflammation, raise blood pressure, along with elevated risk of heart attack and stroke. It is the stress of the job that is the killer. The older you are the less stress you can handle...
_________________________
Vote 2020!

Life is like a PB&J sandwich. The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

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#316725 - 10/14/19 09:42 PM Re: What is "old"? [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3459
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I have posted this before (a while ago). I am 85 years old. The VA gives me a day long memory test every now and then. It takes an entire day and then they will call me and tell me how I did. They always call and the first question is always; "how do you think you did". My reply remains the same; "I failed". then, of course, I get "you cannot win or fail these tests but we do rate you along with your age group". So far I have been in the upper 1%. I think that anybody even verging on 80 years old, and are considering any kind of real job, ESPECIALLY, president, are clinically crazy! They may not even be having memory problems but, unless they are crazy lucky, they probably will.

I have severe speech aphasia (forget words I know, but my wife is well trained to fill in the missing word), rarely remember anything that happened in the last 60 seconds (take me longer to a actually insert stuff into my memory recall part), etc. (its really easy to lose a train of thought if interrupted, etc) If anybody is even verging on my "age group" they are in trouble (memory wise) as far as I can see. I know, and I am sure others too know people older than I who are doing just fine and have no memory problems. The fact, however, is that those folks are few, and far between, based on people who study this kind of stuff have found to be true.

The only positive thing is that the guy who gives the test is a neurologist specializing in brain function so I have to assume he knows what he is doing and he tells me I am doing well. He has also told me that I am not "a candidate for Alzheimer" which is really on the good side. I remember when my dad's wife told me that my dad had altzheimer. At the time there were few who could even diagnose that so I sent them both to seattle to get examined. She found out that she was in good shape but my dad had severe memory loss. Sometimes, for instance, he had no idea who he was or where he was. There is a very real difference between altzheimer and memory loss. I think the difference is really the difference of knowing what is going on and not knowing. Altzheimers also effects bodily functions which begin to fail over time. I am sure folks won't completely agree with all of that one, but, in the fullness of time.......

So, I think both Bernie and Joe are just too damned old unless they are extraordinarily fit both physically and mentally. We will of course, in Bernie's case, get to watch an elderly man basically commit suicide for the entertainment, or horrification, of America's voting class.

Just saying....................

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