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#316402 - 10/07/19 07:47 PM Re: Hyper-partisanship and irrationality [Re: Senator Hatrack]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42954
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
...the states saw themselves as separate countries but realized they needed a more perfect union than was provided for by the Articles of Confederation.

I've never heard or read that the states considered as "separate countries" before. I know they tried to negotiate trade deals independently of each other but they still considered themselves one of thirteen.

The fact remains, America tried it your way once, and it didn't work out - ergo the Albert Einstein quote. smile
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#316404 - 10/07/19 08:50 PM Re: Hyper-partisanship and irrationality [Re: pdx rick]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16925
Loc: Florida
Quote:
it didn't work out

States still have great deal of autonomy and do most of the actual governing of the population. City and county governments do an enormous amount of work in that regard too.

When it comes right down to it most of us never see the Federal Government in action. And that's as it should be, they fund the things that need funding, regulate the things that need regulating, and bomb the things that need bombing. Also they provide endless entertainment and good dependable jobs for many thousands of Americans.

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#316406 - 10/07/19 09:16 PM Re: Hyper-partisanship and irrationality [Re: pdx rick]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
...the states saw themselves as separate countries but realized they needed a more perfect union than was provided for by the Articles of Confederation.

I've never heard or read that the states considered as "separate countries" before. I know they tried to negotiate trade deals independently of each other but they still considered themselves one of thirteen.

The fact remains, America tried it your way once, and it didn't work out - ergo the Albert Einstein quote. smile
Try learning about American history before you talk about it. Prior to the writing of our Constitution, and even after that, the states had a great deal of autonomy. The change from states being autonomous to our having a stronger central government than our Constitution allowed began during the Wilson administration. It was during FDR's third term that the strong central government we now have happened. So from 1787 to 1941, for 154 years, federalism worked.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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#316408 - 10/07/19 11:23 PM Re: Hyper-partisanship and irrationality [Re: NW Ponderer]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10250
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
It is my hope in this thread to avoid confrontation, name- calling, derisive dismissal, etc., and focus on the subject of the thread, which is: Hyper-partisanship and irrationality.

Your hopes were in vain...
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“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#316410 - 10/08/19 01:15 AM Re: Hyper-partisanship and irrationality [Re: logtroll]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16925
Loc: Florida
Hey, me and Hatrack have become fast friends amidst our bickering!

Sometimes I want to call him a dumb feck and wring his neck for his obstinance but he came by his weird ideas honest and there is some small truth about what he has to say. You might note that he also thinks I'm a dumb feck and he'd like to wring my neck as well.
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#316411 - 10/08/19 01:56 AM Re: Hyper-partisanship and irrationality [Re: Greger]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
Originally Posted By: Greger
Hey, me and Hatrack have become fast friends amidst our bickering!

Sometimes I want to call him a dumb feck and wring his neck for his obstinance but he came by his weird ideas honest and there is some small truth about what he has to say. You might note that he also thinks I'm a dumb feck and he'd like to wring my neck as well.

If I were to wring your neck it would make a big mess. I'll just call you dumb feck.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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#316413 - 10/08/19 03:28 AM Re: Hyper-partisanship and irrationality [Re: Senator Hatrack]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9972
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
from 1787 to 1941, for 154 years, federalism worked


Until it didn't anymore. Events of the last 80 years can't be ignored. The world is fundamentally different. Going back to the pre-1941 system does not make any sense. Why should anybody want to, other than as a dishonest obfuscation when losing an argument?

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#316414 - 10/08/19 04:07 AM Re: Hyper-partisanship and irrationality [Re: Senator Hatrack]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42954
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
[ Prior to the writing of our Constitution, and even after that, the states had a great deal of autonomy. The change from states being autonomous to our having a stronger central government than our Constitution allowed began during the Wilson administration. It was during FDR's third term that the strong central government we now have happened. So from 1787 to 1941, for 154 years, federalism worked.

Whatever we have today is the kind of government that I like: if there are no federal rules, then states can do what they want. smile

I like that when some states do something and other states don't, the federal government steps in and gets all of the ducks in a row and everybody starts doing the same thing.

We're the united States of America, not the disjointed States of America.

smile
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#316416 - 10/08/19 04:27 AM Re: Hyper-partisanship and irrationality [Re: pondering_it_all]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Quote:
from 1787 to 1941, for 154 years, federalism worked


Until it didn't anymore. Events of the last 80 years can't be ignored. The world is fundamentally different. Going back to the pre-1941 system does not make any sense. Why should anybody want to, other than as a dishonest obfuscation when losing an argument?
The world might be different but human nature is not. The changes in the last 80 years are based on the mistaken idea that human nature has changed. The "dishonest obfuscation" is the myth that the changes made in the last 80 years are an improvement on what worked for 154 years. When the changes disregard that which does not change, human nature, the changes should be discarded.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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#316417 - 10/08/19 04:34 AM Re: Hyper-partisanship and irrationality [Re: Senator Hatrack]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42954
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
The changes in the last 80 years are based on the mistaken idea that human nature has changed. gard that which does not change, human nature, the changes should be discarded.

Human nature has changed. We no longer have slaves. We no longer have segregation. We no longer have a patriarchal heteronormative work force.

We are diversified. Diversity is our strength. smile
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