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#316866 - 10/17/19 11:40 PM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: chunkstyle]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10253
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Cept' Dem side good. Repub Bad.

Okay, I never said that. But I think maybe I'm finally seeing the burr under your saddle - I'm not bitching enough about Dem corruption, only Rep corruption, and you want me to bitch about Dems.

The thing is, all of the Dem politicians that I know are not corrupt in any way that I know of. Yet I know numerous Reps that are corrupt in varying obvious degrees.

Away from them that I know, the corruption among national level Reps is swampy, indeed. The occasional corrupt or unethical Dem seems to get what's deserved, and sometimes more so (Al Franken comes to mind). The Biden thing has some fishy smells, of which I haven't seen actual proof, but it bolsters my disinclination to vote for Ol' Joe (as if I needed more). In any case, Ol' Joe does not seem to be actively harming anything I care about.

As for bitching about other obviously corrupt and unethical folks, I have a fairly long list of Reps who I think are are outrageously slimey but not very many Dems. Hence my opinion that both sides are not equally corrupt.
_________________________
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To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
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#316875 - 10/18/19 01:34 AM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: logtroll]
chunkstyle Offline
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Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Cept' Dem side good. Repub Bad.

Okay, I never said that. But I think maybe I'm finally seeing the burr under your saddle - I'm not bitching enough about Dem corruption, only Rep corruption, and you want me to bitch about Dems.


Uhhh.... no.
Try rereading what I plainly wrote.

As far as who’s more corrupt I guess we may have different ideas of what corruption is and how it exists?

We seem to have made political bribery legal under citizens united so maybe start at the beginning and take that off the table, what else should be considered politically corrupt?


Edited by chunkstyle (10/18/19 01:42 AM)

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#316879 - 10/18/19 02:22 AM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: chunkstyle]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10253
Loc: One of the Mexicos
I don’t understand what you are saying. Maybe someone else will interpret.
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#316880 - 10/18/19 03:02 AM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16946
Loc: Florida
Getting rid of Citizens United would be a good start. Did the Democrats support that? Do they now? I was under the impression it was mostly pushed through by conservative members of the SCOTUS. That being the case, Republicans have taken control of the Supreme Court and it's gonna be a long time before that changes. Is Mitch McConnell corrupt? Or is he the consummate politician? He certainly had a lot to do with that. Justice Kennedy's retirement was also kind of questionable. I figure Trump dug up dirt on him and blackmailed him into retirement. Lindsey Graham was a never Trumper, then he wasn't...Dirt? Probably. Corruption? Probably. Crime? Maybe.

And all you got on the Dems is Debbie Wasserman Shultz? And some DNC hanky panky? Weak tea compared to the Republican side. RNC never done that when one of their favorite sons gets primaried by an upstart? Is the DNC as corrupt as the RNC? I dunno, I try to just ignore them, it's party politics and I aint a member of the party. I don't vote in the primaries and don't have a dog in the fight.

Call it corruption if you want, I won't argue. But no one went to jail, no laws were broken, Wasserman-Schultz got re-elected and continues to serve. Claims to be a progressive in fact and has probably embraced a bunch of Bernie's ideas at this point.

That's poetic justice if you ask me....also political maneuvering to place herself in the best light among liberals to win re-election a bunch more times. Politics. And more proof that Bernie has shaped the future of the Democratic Party.

To my notion, where there is corruption there is usually crime. Where there is no crime it's just politics. It's a combat sport, it's entertainment, it's like wrestling, carefully choreographed and driven by money.

Just rambling...don't mind me...
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#316882 - 10/18/19 03:44 AM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: logtroll]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
The RNC watched its favorite son get pushed off the stage by an interloper. It didn’t stop him going on to win the party nomination. Democratic Party nomination was much different if my memory serves. In a perverse way the Republicans are more honest and democratic with their nominating process.
Citizens united was decided by the Supreme Court. Yes, the Democratic Party put on a nice performance of outrage but their campaign fundraising tells another story. Both parties are corporate owned I guess it’s a matter of what corporate sponsors you prefer to identify with. Which corporate boards backside you would like your candidate kissing.






Edited by chunkstyle (10/18/19 03:45 AM)

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#316883 - 10/18/19 03:47 AM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: logtroll]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
Don’t sweat me Logs. I don’t often understand your rationals either.

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#316888 - 10/18/19 04:49 AM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle

Citizens united was decided by the Supreme Court. Yes, the Democratic Party put on a nice performance of outrage but their campaign fundraising tells another story.



So I guess they should have just doffed all pretext at corporate funding whatsoever and all Democratic candidates, starting with Barack Obama at the very least, should have crowdsourced all of their mojo.

Well, at least I am glad we both agree that Bernie should have started doing much the same thing right after 2012, provided of course he actually had joined the party.

Or, I suppose Democrats could have just decided to refuse to participate any further in any election campaign where the other party is being infused with corporate cash.

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#316891 - 10/18/19 05:08 AM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
Does the phrase ‘they got the money, we got the numbers’ mean anything to you?
The drive to get corporate cash is the very hallmark of neoliberalism. Justified with an arms race argument.
One wonders how the democrats held a majority monopoly of congress from the new deal until... lessee know, when did the ‘New Democrats’ first arrive with those rationals of how to win...

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#316893 - 10/18/19 11:39 AM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: chunkstyle]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17399
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Rilly NWP. That it?

What does it mean when you cage millions and take 'contributions' from industries profiting off of that activity? Is that fluster? We have people still serving in jail for crimes that are no longer illegal in some states. Should we go thru the record on that?

Wars of imperialism. Should we examine the record of congressional votes and presidential candidates on any of the ones waged in the last few decades? Do Neoliberals only vote for the good kind of state violence?

You want to examine only what you want to examine and disregard points made to the contrary. Your arguments are as arbitrary as anyone else's and carry to legitimate weight.

As one current candidate has pointed out, you can't take special interest money and expect to do the public interest when it may be counterproductive to that money. Here the Democratic Party structure is just as dubious and odious as republicans. Referencing a coupla scandals is proof of being able to reference a coupla scandals. It's evidence of nothing.

Neolibs (are we still pretending that there's no such political ideology?) do talk a better game when it comes to social issues but even that can be elusive when they are in contradiction of that special interest dollar.

And if we want to be real, it's the special dollar that calls the tune in politics and Republicans have no monopoly on that kind of corruption. Your box lid rules violation references not withstanding NWP, I hear there's human slave markets in Libya now. The inventory is being supplied by refugees from parts of the middle east. I don't remember Ghaddafi having slave markets. Wonder what happened to him and Libya...

Is that a rule violation or was that done all legal like too?

That's a lot of words to say nothing at all...

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#316895 - 10/18/19 12:18 PM Re: Are both "sides" equally corrupt? [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
Maybe corruption comes in different forms, some legal, some not . More than the couple cherry picked ones you referenced to make your point.

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