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#316081 - 09/28/19 11:34 PM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43273
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


Criminal Convictions by Administration: Past 50 Years

LBJ – 0
Nixon – 55
Ford – 1
Carter – 0
Reagan – 16
H.W. Bush – 1
Clinton – 1
Bush – 16
Obama – 0
Trump – 4 (so far)

TOTAL:
Republicans = 95
Democrats = 1

Given these numbers, why would anyone vote for a Republican Administration to run our government? Hmm
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#316184 - 10/02/19 02:36 AM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Well, at least we have Perotista.
I tried to lure Felis Leo over here.
So far no joy, but I will keep trying.
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#316185 - 10/02/19 03:08 AM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: NW Ponderer]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 827
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
I have now read... let me count them... 6 excuses by Sen HR for not responding to questions, or posting comments related to same without content. I think that is the sign of an empty barrel. Nothing left to scrape out but dregs.

I think, the answer to my original question is, "somewhere else."


I take this you're still trying to find out where all the conservatives have gone. Are you talking about this site, there I can't help you, I just arrived. In general, we're still around. There's quite a lot of conservatives who don't consider Trump one of them. Even some Republicans don't consider the eight time party switcher a Republican. He's more of an egotistical opportunist in my book.

Trump really doesn't have a political ideology or philosophy. At least that is my opinion. I'm more of a traditional conservative, but we've been replaced by neo, religious and social conservatives. We still hold to our values.

What I think is right now the old type, style traditional conservatories don't have a political party to call their own. I tell you this, most of us are neither pro or anti Trumpers. Although we are sitting back enjoying the fight between them. For us, me I probably should say, neither pro or anti Trumpers are conservatives.

Anyway, good night.
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It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#316220 - 10/03/19 04:25 PM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: perotista]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17425
Yes. I suspect it is more "silent" than "majority" but the conservatism of my past was not loud or bombastic, but conservative. I have always believed that there is value in preservation - you shouldn't see my house! - but I'm definitely not a believer in stasis for stasis' sake. So, in general, I have sympathy for conservative inclinations. My lament has been that the label is being applied to views that are everything but "conservative".


Edited by NW Ponderer (10/03/19 07:53 PM)
Edit Reason: Speling eror.

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#316223 - 10/03/19 04:53 PM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: NW Ponderer]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 827
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Yes. I suspect it is more "silent" than "majority" but the conservatism of my past was not loud or bombastic, but conservative. I have always believed that there is vague in preservation - you shouldn't see my house! - but I'm definitely not a believer in stasis for stasis' sake. So, in general, I have sympathy for conservative inclinations. My lament has been that the label is being applied to views that are everything but "conservative".


If one delved into the political views of traditional conservatives and classic liberals, they're quite similar. This country was founded on the backs of classic liberals. The classic liberal ceased a long time ago, the traditional conservative is a dying breed.

Times change and so do political philosophies.
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It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#316225 - 10/03/19 06:41 PM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: perotista]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43273
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: perotista
This country was founded on the backs of classic liberals.

Indeed, this country was founded during the Age of Enlightenment. smile There's nothing enlightened about conserving the status quo. Hmm
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#316642 - 10/13/19 03:08 AM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Well, at least we have Perotista.
I tried to lure Felis Leo over here.
So far no joy, but I will keep trying.
If I were to post a comment and to back it up I used a conservative source the source would not be accepted because it is a conservative one. When conservatives source are automatically rejected not many conservatives will want to join the Rant. BTW, according to your signature James Madison was an authoritarian.
Originally Posted By: James Madison
Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security, or the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.
Federalist Papers #10
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#316646 - 10/13/19 11:25 AM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ujest Shurly Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 661
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
Madison, advocated for a Constitutional Republic; the form of government we have. A form he believed would prevent the failings of a "pure democracy" and the failings of a Republican forum of government.

In Federalist 10, Madison is talking about how the form of government prevents a factious government that is most likely to be in a pure Democracy (like ancient Greece) or a pure Republic (like ancient Rome). Madison supported a mixed form of government, the Constitutional Republic; he believed this forum protected against the previous forms failings.

Your source is a publication by an individual, a biased individual. One who has cherry-picked his facts and then expands upon those select items. A more neutral source would be better and far less biased, For Example The Avalon Project

Exactly what Madison was talking about in Federalist 10 is in the Title of that paper "The Same Subject Continued
The Union as a Safeguard Against Domestic Faction and Insurrection"
From the New York Packet. Friday, November 23, 1787.
MADISON
and of Federalist 9 titled "The Union as a Safeguard Against Domestic Faction and Insurrection "

Should read them for yourself, they can confuse you and change your mind, or just plain give you more ammunition for your positions.
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Life is like a PB&J sandwich. The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

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#316648 - 10/13/19 01:11 PM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 827
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Well, at least we have Perotista.
I tried to lure Felis Leo over here.
So far no joy, but I will keep trying.


I’ve been thinking about this. There are conservatives, especially traditional conservatives that don’t like Trump. But they see no alternative coming from the Democratic Party, perhaps viewed as the more evil or worst choice than Trump. We already know that Trump and Clinton set the record as the most disliked major party candidates ever or since Gallup and Pew Research started keeping track of these things.

It’s interesting to note that 16% of self-identified conservatives voted for Clinton in 2016, 16% also voted for a Democrat for congress in 2018. That’s not bad when one considers only 8% of Liberals voted for the Republican candidates.

https://www.cnn.com/election/2016/results/exit-polls

https://www.cnn.com/election/2018/exit-polls

Then you have 21% of conservatives giving Trump a somewhat favorable view instead of very favorable. Question 71A. Possibly meaning they’re not enthralled with Trump, but he’s probably better than the Democratic alternative. 8% of conservatives have a somewhat unfavorable view of Trump, 11% very unfavorable. It’s this latter 19% in my opinion that could easily vote Democratic in 2020 along with enticing some of the 21% somewhat favorable with the right candidate.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/x3neaunoh2/econTabReport.pdf

I’ve always classified myself as a Goldwater conservative with some of Perot thrown into the mix. More or less a traditional conservative. What I have seen is this group, my group have remained quiet during Trump’s presidency. Mostly sitting, watching, listening. Pretty much what I have done. Most are in neither the pro or anti Trump camps. But are looking for an alternative to Trump. So far the Democrats have failed to come up with an acceptable alternative. Hillary certainly wasn’t. So we’ll sit on the sidelines and wait to see how 2020 plays out.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#316649 - 10/13/19 01:50 PM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: perotista]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17271
Loc: Florida
Quote:
So we’ll sit on the sidelines and wait to see how 2020 plays out.


I dunno...to my notion it appears to be pretty much a done deal. Unless trends change dramatically, Warren will continue to rise and Trump will lose to any Democrat. Donald Trump is not "shrinking" government, he is not adhering to any conservative principles that I am aware of unless chaos is among them. Republicans will vote Republican regardless of how bad their candidate might be. Democrats will sit home if they haven't got a candidate they like.

But Democrats are united against Trump. You won't see many sitting home or voting third party this time around. Can Trump's base overwhelm this tsunami? I don't think so.
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