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#317144 - 10/23/19 11:19 PM Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? [Re: Greger]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16485
Loc: Florida
Marx thought that society would evolve into socializms.

Then socializms would evolve into communizms

He figgered the workers would revolt and eat the rich then socializms would rise up like a fecking phoenix from the ashes...or somesuch.

Russia and China and a few others tried to force the evolution into occurring but were met with limited success in the long term.

My theory is that the world needs to evolve first into Social Democracy, which is currently occurring naturally and with considerable success. We're even taking steps in that direction here under the guidance of Bernie Sanders and a few others.

Perhaps in a hundred years or so a few of the more advanced nations will begin a move towards actual socialism.

But that's of no concern to us in the here and now.
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#317152 - 10/23/19 11:43 PM Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? [Re: logtroll]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
Socialism and capitalism are sharing space now in various configurations. Both have been evolving. I do see capitalism killing the planet. Socialism not so much. I don't think the planet has a hundred years of capitalism in the tank. I firmly believe the old adage 'it's socialism or barbarism' is an accurate choice from the evidence in front of us.

Your mixed economy website link is the one I quoted equating Nazism and socialism.

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#317160 - 10/24/19 12:33 AM Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16485
Loc: Florida
We're going to be really busy over the next 100 years trying to save our asses. Either the rich help out or we eat them.

It's their choice really.
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#317190 - 10/24/19 08:41 AM Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? [Re: logtroll]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17331
I think I've determined that I'm a far leftist. It may just be that I've been painted that way. I come to this conclusion because of my radical beliefs. Let me list a few:

1) I believe the government should "lay and collect Taxes" and spend it "to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare." That, apparently, makes me a "tax and spend liberal", even though it is explicitly spelled out in the Constitution, Article I,Section 8.

2) I also believe in "equality under law", which, I know, is a liberal position. It says so in the 14th Amendment and on the facade of the Supreme Court.

3) I believe in separation of church and state, like those other radicals.

4) I believe in "due process", another wild-eyed idea.

5) I believe government should be for the people, like it says in the Preamble, that the States should be united. I know, "communism."

6) I'm a "Statist," too, apparently, because I think that the union can be more perfect
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A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#317191 - 10/24/19 12:29 PM Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? [Re: NW Ponderer]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10000
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Well, when you put it that way... Hmm
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“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#317192 - 10/24/19 01:41 PM Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
I like concrete brutalist architecture, cabbage and track suits so I suppose that makes me a communist.

Waddaminnut... weren’t you advocating for blue dog Democratics in 2018, NWP?

Talk about an arbitrary line.

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#317204 - 10/24/19 03:41 PM Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? [Re: logtroll]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17331
Okay, you got issues, man. wink Cabbage? Track suits? To each his own. Which, by the way, was my argument about Blue Dogs. I don' know about "arbitrary," but I do draw lines. Explain arbitrary?

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#317208 - 10/24/19 04:04 PM Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16485
Loc: Florida
I've forgotten what a blue dog is/was. Log Cabin guys were gay Republicans right? Or...feck Ima hafto Gurgle it.

Fiscally responsible centrist Democrats who support a strong defense.

DINOs

I suppose in the modern vernacular we'd call them neo-liberals?

Or is that a different coalition? I tend to lump them all together and just call them Democrats. They're a center right to center left party so you'd expect a lot of that.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#317209 - 10/24/19 04:06 PM Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16485
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I like concrete brutalist architecture, cabbage and track suits


I eat a lot of rice and wear pajamas all day.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#317218 - 10/24/19 05:50 PM Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? [Re: NW Ponderer]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
You were a proponent of a Joe Manchin type of candidate as the way forward for the Democratic party.

A craven grifter firmly representing the corporate interests of resource extraction of W.V.

A senator who votes for Trump more than his own Liberal corporate party.

Contradiction?

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