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#316958 - 10/19/19 06:16 PM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15619
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Great minds, Greger. grin


Aye it's the truth, we often think alike.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#316972 - 10/20/19 12:51 AM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: Greger]
perotista Offline
stranger

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 185
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
Now I think the rise in independents from 30% in 2006 up to 40% today shows that finally folks are getting tired of the constant movement left and right by our two major parties.

And I think it's anger at do nothing centrists of both parties. The neocons and the neolibs, fighting tooth and nail to get more money into the pockets of the wealthy and to become wealthy themselves for doing it. While a majority of Americans become buried in debt as prices rise and wages don't.

Quote:
If you think Warren is a centrist, that just shows me how far left you are.


And that statement right there tells me just how far right you are.

Warren is a former Republican. An expert in bankruptcy law who recognizes that a few changes need to be made or we are headed for trouble.

That's the radical left in your eyes, a former Republican. You seem to insist that no Democrat is allowed to make any changes, raise any taxes, or impose any regulations as that would be a radical leftist agenda. When Republicans propose something...anything...that might actually help all Americans rather than a favored few I think you'd see Democrats jump right on board with it.

Perhaps you'd like to compose a list of Republican proposals that do just that. It should be easy.

Now take a look at Democratic proposals and legislation...pretty radical Sh*t, right? Or too radical for a rightwinger like yourself to support.
Democratic bills passed in the house but DOA as Grim Reaper McConnell strikes them down


You may consider me far right, that's fine. I've been branded both at different times. Harry Reid tabled over 300 Republican House passed bills between 2011-2016 while he was majority leader during Obama. The fact McConnell is doing the same I think proves my point about automatic opposition.

When Reid was doing that most democrats thought it was great, now that McConnell is doing the same thing, most democrats think it is bad and undemocratic. I personally think all House passed bills should come up for debate and a vote on the senate floor. The senate could easily do this if they expanded their 3 day work week into five. Friday is fly away day and Monday is fly back into Washington day.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#316973 - 10/20/19 12:58 AM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: perotista]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17148
Originally Posted By: perotista
Harry Reid tabled over 300 Republican House passed bills between 2011-2016 while he was majority leader during Obama.
But 75 of those were the same thing - bills to overturn the ACA. They weren't real policy proposals. There's where your "equivalency" argument falters.

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#316976 - 10/20/19 01:27 AM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: NW Ponderer]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15619
Loc: Florida
Yeah, I did ask for examples that were aimed to help all Americans rather than just a few, NWP wiped out 75 of them so that leaves you 225 more...surely you can give me a few examples that would generally help working Americans rather than their corporate bosses...?

Bills that Democrats would support and vote for if not for that radical leftist Harry Reid...
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#316994 - 10/20/19 04:16 PM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17148
I'm not being critical of Perotista, mind you, but of the argument that the Republican party has made any real policy proposals in the last... oh, let's say, 10 years. The idea that there is a policy-based parity between the parties is a myth and it distracts us from the real issues. Focusing on the thread title, Which policies have conservatives advanced? I'll offer a list of topics:

Environment
Immigration
Economic stability
Budget/taxes
National defense
Homeland security
Criminal justice
Foreign affairs
Education

I'll also offer an opinion: true conservatives care about all of these issues, but the current "conservative leadership" doesn't. There have been a few successes - The First Step Act comes to mind - but then we get this: Senate Republicans reject effort to condemn Trump's Syria withdrawal.

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#317070 - 10/22/19 09:31 PM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: NW Ponderer]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
I'm not being critical of Perotista, mind you, but of the argument that the Republican party has made any real policy proposals in the last... oh, let's say, 10 years. The idea that there is a policy-based parity between the parties is a myth and it distracts us from the real issues. Focusing on the thread title, Which policies have conservatives advanced? I'll offer a list of topics:

Environment
Immigration
Economic stability
Budget/taxes
National defense
Homeland security
Criminal justice
Foreign affairs
Education

I'll also offer an opinion: true conservatives care about all of these issues, but the current "conservative leadership" doesn't. There have been a few successes - The First Step Act comes to mind - but then we get this: Senate Republicans reject effort to condemn Trump's Syria withdrawal.
True conservatives do care about these issues. Since they are true conservatives their views on these issues are not in agreement with NW Ponderer's. Which is why they are true conservatives.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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#317077 - 10/22/19 11:02 PM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: NW Ponderer]
perotista Offline
stranger

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 185
Perhaps if I give my views on these things, one can decide whether I’m conservative or not.
Environment – I’m all for clean water, air and for conservation of our natural resources. Nothing makes me madder than to see woods and farmland clear cut for shopping malls, sub-divisions, filling in vast areas with concrete and asphalt. Do I believe in man-made global warming, no. I think Mother Nature will do whatever she wants to do.

Immigration – I’m against illegal immigration. But it isn’t a hot topic with me. I go along with my wife who is from Thailand on this. She thinks that if she had to go through the background checks, pay the fees, obtain a passport and visa, among a thousand other things to include a waiting period. So too should everyone else.

Economic stability – Not sure what is meant by this. But it sounds like something one should be for.

Budget/taxes – I’m for fiscal responsibility. Meaning this nation shouldn’t spend more than what it takes in. Fiscal responsible isn’t what is known today as being fiscal conservative which means just low taxes. I believe in a balanced budget. To get there if one has to cut spending, do it. If one has to raise taxes, do it. But with our massive national debt, both cutting spending and raising taxes need to be done.

National defense – All for a strong military. Having said that, I believe you could cut 100 billion from the military if congress stopped using the military as a civilian jobs’ creator and maintainer. Many times the JCS has told congress they didn’t need this, didn’t want that, couldn’t use anymore of this. Only to be forced to buy those things so a congressman or senator can keep civilians employed back in their home district or state. Yes, we could indeed cut 100 billion if we just gave the military what it needed to keep this country safe and secure. National defense need not suffer, but congress always sees otherwise and will forever use the military as a job’s creator and maintainer.

Homeland security – I think we have gone overboard on this, that we have lost freedoms at the expense of security.

Criminal justice – Criminals should pay dearly for their crimes, I’m also all in favor of the death penalty. Not as a deterrent, but to ensure the criminal, murderer never commits another crime. This after the criminal has been found guilty in a court of law by a jury of his peers. I also am in favor that if any crime involves a firearm, that should be an automatic 10-year sentence on top of any sentence for the crime they committed whether or not anyone is killed or injured.

Foreign affairs – I really don’t have any set idea on this. Outside of treating each nation individually. There is no one size fits all.

Education – I think with all the government involvement in education they have dumbed down the students. Through my kids and grand kids going to college, I have learned that in subjects like math, science, English, history etc, a lot of the things I learned in High School are now being taught in the first two years of college. I suppose this is because of the want for a higher graduation rate, percentage than actually making the students learn something.

There you have, quick and dirty.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#317078 - 10/22/19 11:06 PM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6930
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I tell ya Senator ... sometimes you say the darnest things.

Quote:
Since they are true conservatives their views on these issues are not in agreement with NW Ponderer's. Which is why they are true conservatives.

as opposed to false conservatives or fake conservatives or unreal conservatives or because they took the Trumpian ideological purity test and pledged their fealty personally to Mr Trump.

I haven't got a clue what your statement means or if it means anything at all.

Maybe you should read a definition, so here is one from wiki
Quote:
Conservatism is a political and social philosophy promoting traditional social institutions in the context of culture and civilization. The central tenets of conservatism include tradition, organic society, hierarchy, authority, and property rights.

Note I didn't see the additional adjective "true" although I suppose it could have been an adverb .... regardless wiki didn't think it was necessary to make your grammatical additions.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#317082 - 10/22/19 11:31 PM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: perotista]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15619
Loc: Florida
Global warming denier.

Considers undocumented aliens "illegal"

Economic stability? For who the top 1%? How do you feel about income inequality? nevermind, I think I know already.

Fiscal responsibility equals a balanced budget. Cutting spending on social programs? Or infrastructure? or what.

If you cut $100Billion from the defense budget you'd still have a half a trillion dollars tied up in it, and that cut is just to get rid of civilian contractors who support our fighting forces?

A little overboard on Homeland defense? Some of us think it's an outrageous state of affairs since we already spend over $618Billion annually and don't need another bureaucracy with billions more dedicated to the common defense.

Criminals should pay dearly for their crimes, I’m also all in favor of the death penalty

with all the government involvement in education they have dumbed down the students.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#317083 - 10/22/19 11:36 PM Re: Where have all the conservatives gone? [Re: rporter314]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
Originally Posted By: rporter314
I tell ya Senator ... sometimes you say the darnest things.

Quote:
Since they are true conservatives their views on these issues are not in agreement with NW Ponderer's. Which is why they are true conservatives.

as opposed to false conservatives or fake conservatives or unreal conservatives or because they took the Trumpian ideological purity test and pledged their fealty personally to Mr Trump.

I haven't got a clue what your statement means or if it means anything at all.

Maybe you should read a definition, so here is one from wiki
Quote:
Conservatism is a political and social philosophy promoting traditional social institutions in the context of culture and civilization. The central tenets of conservatism include tradition, organic society, hierarchy, authority, and property rights.

Note I didn't see the additional adjective "true" although I suppose it could have been an adverb .... regardless wiki didn't think it was necessary to make your grammatical additions.
You make the erroneous assumption that all conservatives are Trump supporters. There is a difference between voting for a candidate and being a supporter of a candidate. I voted for Trump. I did not and do support him. I will probably vote for him again in 2020 because none of the potential nominees of the Democratic Party are people I could vote for. My defense of him against the attempt to impeach him is because it is a political attack on him. It is only in your partisan imagination that there is a "Trumpian ideological purity test." No Republican I know of, from the Chair of the MN Republican Party to the grass roots level "pledged their fealty personally to Mr Trump." To make those outlandish and ridiculous claims shows how rabidly partisan you are!
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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