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#317030 - 10/22/19 03:04 AM Re: Public option vs Medicare for All [Re: logtroll]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9256
Loc: North San Diego County
If they did find a cancer cure, the drug company would patent it, get an exclusive right to make it, and charge $500,000 for it BECAUSE THEY CAN. That's our free enterprise system. People on insurance plans would hit their cap of about $7000 and pay no more each year (their insurance company would pay the rest). People on Medicare would spend enough to hit catastrophic care in January, and then pay 5%. (About $30,000 per year.) Medicare would pay the rest. So you can see who's sucking up all the money from insurance companies and Medicare.

Medicare-for-All would heavily involve insurance companies. Right now they process all the Medicare claims for about 5% of the total. Also, many many Medicare users have either Advantage Plans or Medicare Supplement Plans, because bare Medicare leaves you very vulnerable to medical bankruptcy. My Advantage plan just costs the same as the Part B cost, so I effectively pay nothing and I get Part D drug coverage included for free. But I still have to pay that 5% for an expensive drug. It would be really nice if Medicare (including drugs) had a cap.

My point is that Medicare-for-All would mean more of the same. The hard part is figuring out how people would pay for it. Us retirees worked and paid in for 40+ years. So you can't suddenly give it on the same terms to everybody, or even those 55-65. They would have to pay say about 15% less than an ACA policy. When they turn 65, they could get it for $130/month like we who paid for it.

The reality is that Medicare-for-all has to be very much like adding a government option in ACA. It's not single-payer. Not at all.

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#317040 - 10/22/19 02:34 PM Re: Public option vs Medicare for All [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16209
Loc: Florida
Want to expand Medicare? You'll need to hire the insurance companies, not fire them
The Hill
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#317044 - 10/22/19 04:16 PM Re: Public option vs Medicare for All [Re: pondering_it_all]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2103
No I can't see who's sucking up all the money from insurance companies and medicare from your hypothetical.

Yes, there would be contractors for admin grunt work. Far less than we have now. Or it should with a single payer pricing structure.

Your point is that you think it would be. That is the only point I can see with the argument you made.
Sanders has proposals on how he would raise revenue. Warren's supposed to release hers soon.

Your last line makes me wonder if we are talking about the same thing.

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#317045 - 10/22/19 04:28 PM Re: Public option vs Medicare for All [Re: Greger]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2103
Originally Posted By: Greger
Want to expand Medicare? You'll need to hire the insurance companies, not fire them
The Hill


No need to shout Gregor :0

One interesting take away from the proponents of the 'Healthy NY' proposal meetings was comparison between the admin costs of a local regional hospital nearby and a hospital located in the city of Windsor, Ontario. The entire billings department consisted of six people whereas our local regional hospital had over 150.

So yeah, there will be people needed to push paper, etc.. but with a standard of pricing from a single payer there will no longer be a need to staff an army of clerks to wrestle with insurance companies ever changing reimbursement negotiations that get re-negotiated constantly.

That's off the top of my head.

Frankly, these arguments have more to do with who's making the proposals and which side is winning. To argue for the current system is beyond my comprehension really.

It's not individual doctors that are trying to make money off your diseases (well I'd like to think so like you do) but a system that, by design, does.

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#317063 - 10/22/19 06:50 PM Re: Public option vs Medicare for All [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16209
Loc: Florida
It was a headline I wasn't shouting. grin Usually I follow those with a quote and an opinion Į\_(--)_/Į

Quote:
To argue for the current system is beyond my comprehension really.


Yeah it is, but I tend to look at what's going to happen rather than what really should happen. I can see a way forward to a single payer system by working with existing infrastructure. Or maybe they'll pull off a political miracle....

Supreme court is going to be an issue too. Which is to say that Constitutional restraints may come into play. The Constitution is fairly flexible but our current Supreme Court is not.
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#317074 - 10/22/19 10:49 PM Re: Public option vs Medicare for All [Re: logtroll]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9256
Loc: North San Diego County
The goal is single-payer. That's something I would like very much. The question is: How do we get there from here? There is so much money and opposition involved, I doubt everybody will suddenly come to their senses and do the right thing! That NEVER happens in America. Politics is The Art of the Possible. So what is possible? If we fight hard and a lot of things work out, I think we can get a public option put back in ACA. We can also undo all the Republican "fixes" that tried to kill ACA.

Expand Medicaid in every state so a bunch of people are not in the gap between Medicaid and ACA. That is just plain insane! Right now if people make a little too much for Medicaid but not enough for ACA, they have to pay full price. If they make just enough for ACA, it is essentially free. What clown designed that system? (Answer: Republicans)

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#317090 - 10/23/19 01:18 AM Re: Public option vs Medicare for All [Re: logtroll]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2103
And the Democrats passed the ACA.

Iíve heard all the equivocating, lowering expectations and killing progress for political protection of capital in one lifetime to take any of that seriously anymore.



Aside from a raft of Russian investigation. the Democratic Party has proposed Butkus.
They did help pass a monster of a warfare budget. But healthcare? Wonkish condescension, adults in the room patronizing, and ignoring broad popular proposals that have won elections historically in this country in the past and in other countries currently.

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#317118 - 10/23/19 06:16 PM Re: Public option vs Medicare for All [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16209
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Iíve heard all the equivocating, lowering expectations and killing progress for political protection of capital in one lifetime to take any of that seriously anymore.


That's too bad because it's how politics works. I try to be analytical about the whole thing and don't take any of it too seriously.

What I want to happen almost never happens.
What I hope will happen occasionally does does.
But what I think will happen seems to be mostly on track.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#317126 - 10/23/19 07:45 PM Re: Public option vs Medicare for All [Re: Greger]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2103
Itís one way politics works. You may prefer it but that doesnít make it the only way.

Now whoís gunna give the dead German political quote next?


Edited by chunkstyle (10/23/19 07:46 PM)

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#317128 - 10/23/19 08:06 PM Re: Public option vs Medicare for All [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15036
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Itís one way politics works. You may prefer it but that doesnít make it the only way.

Now whoís gunna give the dead German political quote next?


"That's one way politics works and we may 'prefer it' but that doesn't make it the only way?"

Pffffttt, why do I get the sense that you're just taking out your frustration at the reality of the way the world works by taking it out on people here and mocking what we said?

Ahhh, maybe it's just my imagination.

So, what do you suggest instead? Shall we firebomb Washington?
Hold a mass protest and engage with the National Guard?
Shall we initiate some "paper terrorism" and sue the crap out of the government for every single thing that they do a la the SovCitizen bunch?

Shall we "go Galt" and set up our own libertarian paradise somewhere and refuse to pay taxes a la Ayn Rand?

Should we storm a bird sanctuary and bring a bunch of gunz?
I hear there's an empty one up in Oregon.

Geez Chunkz, when you say we "prefer it" you ignore the fact that so many of us have expended effort as best we knew how for most of our adult lives to participate in our democracy while those around us took everything for granted.

Oh well, I guess we're just a bunch of disheveled useless liberals.
Best of luck with your endeavors, lord knows you don't need an albatross like liberals around your neck.
We're worse than the Republicans!
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