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#316945 - 10/19/19 05:00 PM What is a far leftist, anyway?
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9593
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Woody Guthrie? Howard Zinn?
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#316953 - 10/19/19 05:57 PM Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? [Re: logtroll]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17185
I appreciate the thread, my friend. But, to give it a little more context, are we talking historically? Or contemporarily? Eugene Debs or AOC? Marx or Ike? Inquiring minds, and all that.


Edited by NW Ponderer (10/19/19 06:01 PM)

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#316959 - 10/19/19 06:23 PM Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? [Re: NW Ponderer]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9593
Loc: One of the Mexicos
I meant it to be wide open. Righties these days are quite fond of using "far-leftist" as meaning some scary, dangerous, anti-American apocalyptic EVIL cult.

I'd bet most of us here don't think there is much in the way of far leftism at play today.
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#316960 - 10/19/19 06:25 PM Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? [Re: logtroll]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
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Registered: 08/03/04
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It all depends on who is holding the Dymo Labelmaker gun.

Factually, the "far Left" today consists of the US Green Party, the Antifa bunch, the college campus SJW's and the standard far Left liberal Dems like AOC, Ilhan Omar, etc.

I'd hazard the guess that the Antifa crowd occupy the furthest outpost as evidenced by their black and red pair of flags. The BLACK represents far Left anarchy and the red represents communism.
That part's not a guess, that comes straight from Antifaschistische Aktion.

Bernie probably occupies the border between the far Left and the traditional Left and I use that loosely because Sanders really is NOT all that far Left if you look at his policies and compare to actual socialism. That's because Mr. Sanders isn't really a socialist anymore, just a good liberal Democrat from the old school.

Now, if you were to ask one of today's Republicans, everyone who isn't Tulsi or Joe Biden is far Left and probably a secret Communist, and that's due to the Republican Party moving so far to the Right that even Eisenhower is attacked as a communist sympathizer.
The Party of Trump is attempting to move further to the Right than even the Birch Society.

No wonder they think all Democrats are secret commies.
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#316971 - 10/20/19 12:39 AM Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
perotista Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 235
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
It all depends on who is holding the Dymo Labelmaker gun.

Factually, the "far Left" today consists of the US Green Party, the Antifa bunch, the college campus SJW's and the standard far Left liberal Dems like AOC, Ilhan Omar, etc.

I'd hazard the guess that the Antifa crowd occupy the furthest outpost as evidenced by their black and red pair of flags. The BLACK represents far Left anarchy and the red represents communism.
That part's not a guess, that comes straight from Antifaschistische Aktion.

Bernie probably occupies the border between the far Left and the traditional Left and I use that loosely because Sanders really is NOT all that far Left if you look at his policies and compare to actual socialism. That's because Mr. Sanders isn't really a socialist anymore, just a good liberal Democrat from the old school.

Now, if you were to ask one of today's Republicans, everyone who isn't Tulsi or Joe Biden is far Left and probably a secret Communist, and that's due to the Republican Party moving so far to the Right that even Eisenhower is attacked as a communist sympathizer.
The Party of Trump is attempting to move further to the Right than even the Birch Society.

No wonder they think all Democrats are secret commies.



I agree it is a matter of personal perspectives. I probably view someone far left being from Georgia than someone from the Northeast or West Coast would view them more mainstream or perhaps center to center left politically. The same for the far right, it's definition could be entirely regional on how one qualifies or views those who in their perspective are far right.

Now I would say IKE and Bill Clinton were centrist. Two of my favorite presidents although I was too young to vote for IKE and never voted for Bill backing Ross Perot both times. I also hold JFK in high esteem along with Reagan who I would place center right. Those four are my top four presidents in my lifetime.

Yes, I do consider Sanders and Warren to be far left, I think most from Georgia, even Democrats from Georgia do also. You can see that in the latest WSB/Landmark poll which has Biden at 41%, Warren at 17% and Sanders at 8% among Georgia Democrats.

http://landmarkcommunications.net/wsb-tv...mary-sept-21st/

This shows me that there is a disconnect between regions as to what is more or less the center to center left and what is far left. Even among Democrats. Now if you look at the west coast, Warren is far ahead of Biden, I'd say even with or slightly ahead of Biden in the Northeast, trailing in the South, the Midwest and most plain states.

How one views far left or far right for that matter may very well depend on which region of the country you're from.
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#316977 - 10/20/19 01:48 AM Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? [Re: logtroll]
chunkstyle Online   content
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1951
If, on one side of the political spectrum you have hierarchy and the other you have egalitarianism, then wouldn’t those being the most active towards achieving these ideological goals represent the outer edges?
Communism, unlike socialism, is down with revolutionary change so I would guess they would represent more extreme measures to achieve their objectives, not necessarily more extreme outcomes.
Guess it depends on what your referring to as “far”?



Edited by chunkstyle (10/20/19 01:50 AM)

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#316979 - 10/20/19 02:20 AM Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? [Re: perotista]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15791
Loc: Florida
Even I think Sanders is pretty far left. It doesn't bother me because I'm also pretty far left. Warren is a compromise, she's not a lefty by any means but she is a progressive. If she does a good job it will help set the stage for a genuine lefty to be elected. AOC will be old enough to run when Liz finishes up her two terms. Now there's a genuine lefty for you!

I imagine the lefties probably poll better in some districts than others even within Georgia, Atlanta and Athens come to mind, maybe some coastal areas? I don't know your state very well, it's just too far up north for me to pay much attention to it. I do know yall pissed off the colored girls in 2018 and 30% of the population of Georgia is black.
Were 30% of those polled black? How do black voters feel about Biden? Will they choose him over Warren because Obama? Rhetorical questions, I'm just throwing out a few ideas that might effect the 2020 primaries.

And these radical right and radical left swings you speak of? Which presidents do you label radical left? Obama surely, even though he tried his best to work across the aisle they weren't having none of it. Not Clinton because you liked him(so did I, by the way, but he's never been popular here.) How bout the Bushes? Radical Right? Carter you didn't mention. He's practically a communist what with all that socialist habitat for humanity stuff so he's in the radical leftist column, 'magine that! A Georgia commie! Bet yall are ashamed of him!
And there was LBJ, a Texan...gave equal rights to black people. Another radical leftist!! Why is it the most radical leftists all come from the south? Everybody else was Republicans, Ford, Nixon, uh...you were okay with Kennedy, a yankee...are you sure you're a southerner?

Anyway there don't seem to be all that many swings to the left but there's a whole handful of swings to the right...not at all the back and forth you seem to be describing.
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#316980 - 10/20/19 02:30 AM Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15791
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Guess it depends on what your referring to as “far”?


His "far" seems to be about half a step from the terrified center who are afraid to step left or right. Afraid to take a stand, afraid to make a move. Afraid of anyone who does. Any move in any direction is radical. Don't make waves, don't upset the applecart, just don't do anything!

Jeeze here I go again....I'm not a hateful man Pero, yet I go after you and the Senator like a hungry alligator. I just don't know what gets into me.
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#316986 - 10/20/19 11:21 AM Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? [Re: Greger]
perotista Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 235
Originally Posted By: Greger
Even I think Sanders is pretty far left. It doesn't bother me because I'm also pretty far left. Warren is a compromise, she's not a lefty by any means but she is a progressive. If she does a good job it will help set the stage for a genuine lefty to be elected. AOC will be old enough to run when Liz finishes up her two terms. Now there's a genuine lefty for you!

I imagine the lefties probably poll better in some districts than others even within Georgia, Atlanta and Athens come to mind, maybe some coastal areas? I don't know your state very well, it's just too far up north for me to pay much attention to it. I do know yall pissed off the colored girls in 2018 and 30% of the population of Georgia is black.
Were 30% of those polled black? How do black voters feel about Biden? Will they choose him over Warren because Obama? Rhetorical questions, I'm just throwing out a few ideas that might effect the 2020 primaries.

And these radical right and radical left swings you speak of? Which presidents do you label radical left? Obama surely, even though he tried his best to work across the aisle they weren't having none of it. Not Clinton because you liked him(so did I, by the way, but he's never been popular here.) How bout the Bushes? Radical Right? Carter you didn't mention. He's practically a communist what with all that socialist habitat for humanity stuff so he's in the radical leftist column, 'magine that! A Georgia commie! Bet yall are ashamed of him!
And there was LBJ, a Texan...gave equal rights to black people. Another radical leftist!! Why is it the most radical leftists all come from the south? Everybody else was Republicans, Ford, Nixon, uh...you were okay with Kennedy, a yankee...are you sure you're a southerner?

Anyway there don't seem to be all that many swings to the left but there's a whole handful of swings to the right...not at all the back and forth you seem to be describing.


Biden vs. Warren among Georgia's blacks: Biden 38.7%, Warren 19.1%, Sanders 8.3%. Biden gets 49% outside the Atlanta metro area and 36% within. Warren gains 5 points going within the Atlanta metro area vs. outside of it.

http://landmarkcommunications.net/wsb-tv...mary-sept-21st/

I never considered Obama far left, center left yes. Both Bush's center right, Jimmy, I liked, a native son. Voted for him twice. But as time went by his presidency looked worse and worse compared to others. Jimmy in my opinion today was a great governor, poor president.

I'm not as ideological as you apparently. Siding with the Democrats on some issues, with Republicans on others. Most issues are irrelevant to me. I don't care about the wall one way or the other. Which bathroom transgenders use, I don't care. I'm against illegal immigration, but whether one is for it or against it isn't a factor in my deciding who to vote for. Now as you would imagine, I'm very pro second amendment, having been born and raised on a farm and having my own .410 at the age of twelve and going hunting back in our woods alone at the same age. Going into town to the Western Auto and buying shells for it, riding my bike by the way with no questions asked.

Prior to voting I always ask myself the question would so and so candidate leave this country or what ever office they're seeking better off or worst off when they left that office then when they first entered. In 2016 the answer was both major party candidates would do more harm, I voted against them and harm.

Let me put it this way, I've been comfortable with every president in my lifetime being president. Trump I'm not and if Warren or Sanders became president, I wouldn't be comfortable with them either. So in my book of comfortability, those two are on the same page as Trump.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#316988 - 10/20/19 11:36 AM Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? [Re: logtroll]
Ujest Shurly Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 503
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
What is a far Leftist? in no particular order.

Dr. Martin Luther King - advocated for equal treatment under the law, changed the fabric of a nation.

Abraham Lincoln - changed the social fabric of a nation.

The Suffragists and Suffragettes - Advocated for voting rights and equal treatment, changed the fabric of a nation.

The Founding Fathers - Advocated for equal treatment under the law, did not get it - changed the fabric of an entire society.

Starting to notice a trend here...

I believe, they were the leftists of their day; even if they were Republican or Conservatives.


Edited by Ujest Shurly (10/20/19 11:38 AM)
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