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#317089 - 10/23/19 01:08 AM Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   happy

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14434
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger


Convinced yet or is Trump not proof enough?


LOL ROTFMOL LOL
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#317092 - 10/23/19 01:41 AM Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? [Re: logtroll]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
Convinced yet or is Trump Clinton not proof enough? I would have voted for Millard Fillmore over either Trump or Clinton. At least he got an auditorium in San Francisco, and in NYC, named after him. Some great rock & roll concerts were performed at those venues. Whipping Post
Wait I can't say that about Trump because according to rporter314 as a conservative I took the "Trumpian ideological purity test and pledged their fealty personally to Mr Trump."
ROTFMOL
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

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#317095 - 10/23/19 02:19 AM Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? [Re: Senator Hatrack]
perotista Online   content
stranger

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 201
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Convinced yet or is Trump Clinton not proof enough? I would have voted for Millard Fillmore over either Trump or Clinton. At least he got an auditorium in San Francisco, and in NYC, named after him. Some great rock & roll concerts were performed at those venues. Whipping Post
Wait I can't say that about Trump because according to rporter314 as a conservative I took the "Trumpian ideological purity test and pledged their fealty personally to Mr Trump."
ROTFMOL


6% of the total electorate, 12% of independents, some 9 million voters chose to vote for a third party candidate which was unknown to most of them whether than choose between Trump and Clinton. To vote for a name on that ballot only because their last name wasn't Trump nor Clinton. 60% of all Americans viewed Trump negatively or unfavorable, 56% held the same view of Clinton. Both major party candidate set the record for the highest unfavorable rating ever. The first two ever major party candidates to be viewed unfavorable and unwanted by over 50% of all Americans. Barry Goldwater back in 1964 held the previous record for the highest unfavorable at 47%.

Compare the 6% who voted third party in 2016 to the 1.5% in 2012, 1.2% in 2008 and 1.0% in 2004. 2016 quadrupled the third party vote from 2012 and six times more than 2004. 25% of all Americans disliked both, they didn't want neither Trump nor Clinton to become the next president. This included 54% of all independents.

https://news.gallup.com/opinion/polling-...candidates.aspx

2016 showed us all that how we choose our presidential candidates is broken. Perhaps broken beyond repair. When the best candidates either party can come up with is one who had a 38% favorable rating vs. one with a 36%. Time to throw how we do things on the trash heap of history and start anew.

Here's the history of how Americans viewed the major party candidates.

Highest to lowest favorable/unfavorable ratings of each major party presidential candidate.
Favorable/unfavorable
1956 Eisenhower 84/12%
1964 LBJ 81/13%
1976 Carter 81/16%
1960 JFK 80/14%
1960 Nixon 79/16%
1968 Nixon 79/22%
1976 Ford 79/20%
1972 Nixon 76/21%
1968 Humphrey 72/28%
1984 Reagan 71/30%
1980 Carter 68/32%
1984 Mondale 66/34%
1980 Reagan 64/31%
1992 Bill Clinton 64/33%
2008 Obama 62/35%
2012 Obama 62/37%
1956 Stevenson 61/31%
2004 G.W. Bush 61/39%
2008 McCain 60/35%
1992 G.H.W. Bush 59/40%
2000 G.W. Bush 58/38%
2004 Kerry 57/40%
1996 Bill Clinton 56/42%
1988 G.H.W. Bush 56/39%
2000 Gore 55/45%
2012 Romney 55/43%
1972 McGovern 55/41%
1996 Dole 54/45%
1988 Dukakis 50/45%
1964 Goldwater 43/47%
2016 Hillary Clinton 38/56%
2016 Donald Trump 36/60%
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#317103 - 10/23/19 12:37 PM Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? [Re: Greger]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1865
Originally Posted By: Greger
Back to topic...

What is a far leftist, anyway?

I am!

.but I'm not a socialist by any means


Huh?!

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#317105 - 10/23/19 02:32 PM Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9538
Loc: One of the Mexicos
I consider myself to be a card-carrying far-outist. A radical member of the Outie Rebel Faction (ORF) and all that it encompasses... doggedly pursuing freedom from the oppressions of humanity like wild game.


Edited by logtroll (10/23/19 02:38 PM)
Edit Reason: evolving ideology
_________________________
You can’t solve a problem without first understanding what the problem is.

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#317106 - 10/23/19 02:37 PM Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15648
Loc: Florida
Do I believe that Government should own the means of production?

No.

So, by the very definition of it, I simply am not of that school of thought. But If you draw the right/left line between Republicans and Democrats as I stipulated then I am by all means "Far Left". The history of the right/left division goes back to the French Revolution and is a fairly suitable divide between our two major parties.

Quote:
The right is always the party sector associated with the interests of the upper or dominant classes, the left the sector expressive of the lower economic or social classes, and the centre that of the middle classes. Historically this criterion seems acceptable. The conservative right has defended entrenched prerogatives, privileges and powers; the left has attacked them. The right has been more favorable to the aristocratic position, to the hierarchy of birth or of wealth; the left has fought for the equalization of advantage or of opportunity, for the claims of the less advantaged. Defence and attack have met, under democratic conditions, not in the name of class but in the name of principle; but the opposing principles have broadly corresponded to the interests of the different classes.
WIKI
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#317107 - 10/23/19 03:23 PM Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? [Re: Greger]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1865
government owning the means of production is like saying capitalism is free enterprise.

I think your using JGW's definition of socialism now.

The Democrats are not the party of the left. That party went away with the new deal.

What we have in it's place is a rebranding effort of two political parties representing the same constituents in two slightly different ways.

It's what is affectionately called neoliberals and neoconservatives.




Edited by chunkstyle (10/23/19 03:25 PM)

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#317108 - 10/23/19 03:26 PM Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? [Re: chunkstyle]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9538
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Neo's choice - the red pill, or the blue pill?
_________________________
You can’t solve a problem without first understanding what the problem is.

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#317110 - 10/23/19 04:43 PM Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? [Re: logtroll]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1865
Or black pilled

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#317111 - 10/23/19 05:07 PM Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15648
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I think your using JGW's definition of socialism now.


Actually Merriam-Webster. Because words have meaning. I am a Social Democrat. Also Merriam-Webster. It's actually indistinguishable to anyone on the right and most in the center, but it never hurts to put a fine point on things.
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"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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