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#317657 - 11/02/19 12:08 AM Re: Public option vs Medicare for All [Re: chunkstyle]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10333
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
Only if the composting is carbon neutral.

Good point... we can make biochar, which will be carbon negative!
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#317696 - 11/03/19 02:28 AM Re: Public option vs Medicare for All [Re: logtroll]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10351
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
My purpose for bringing up risk pools was not as an argument for or against anything. It is a fundamental reality in any insurance concept.


I am not discounting the importance of establishing a large risk pool. But every November we all get literature that compares our options for employee, commercial, or ACA coverage side by side. Those tables include the price (though employers rather than employees see it.) My experience with employers has been that they are ALWAYS looking to save money, and are quite willing to switch plans to save a buck. My experience with my wife's ACA info has been that we always carefully compare prices. If one of those columns had a price of 15% less, do you really think people would reject that option?

In addition, the government option would have a risk pool that extended across all 50 states! You don't think this would be far bigger than all the other risk pools?

My fault: I assumed everybody would understand these points. That's why I thought it was silly to worry about it.

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#317697 - 11/03/19 02:37 AM Re: Public option vs Medicare for All [Re: logtroll]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10351
Loc: North San Diego County
I really have nothing against MFA: I just think it's harder to do than adding a public option. Maybe so hard that the fight for it gives Trump another four years in the White House. THAT would be a huge problem. So why not just do it the easy way? The non-coercive way? The way Republicans can't have (much) of a melt-down over, and convince all the Independents (39% of voters) that it's the end of the world?

And it really gets us to the same place a few years down the road.

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#317707 - 11/03/19 12:12 PM Re: Public option vs Medicare for All [Re: pondering_it_all]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
I think 40 years of austerity, reckless foreign adventurism with rapacious capitalism and the final hubris of running an unliked candidate is what led to our current President.
Addressing people’s material concerns and lowering the level of biblical inequalities would be a good way to fight back.
MFA does that. Only those that are making bank or not affected or, god forbid, will pay higher taxes seem to be opposing it.
Nancy Pelosi comes to mind. I suppose if I was worth a hundred million I may not like it either.

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#317725 - 11/04/19 12:13 AM Re: Public option vs Medicare for All [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10333
Loc: One of the Mexicos
I don't care much for Warren's pitch on health insurance/healthcare costs. Too nerdy and confusing. Pretending to put the "new" costs on the backs of the rich (I'm not against that idea, but selling it will be a minefield) and on businesses (I don't think businesses should be in the business of paying for healthcare) are a continuation of the desire to avoid the fact of using taxation to pay for the service, but at a lower rate than "premiums" (always thought that was a bullshit word used to sell a product).

I prefer a 30,000' approach where the prime discussion is about the general reasons why government provided single-payer healthcare would be better and cheaper than the private business model.

A simple chart should be sufficient to make the case (echoes of Perot...).

I haven't had the time to cobble something together, but thought I would float the concept to see if anyone sparks to it.

The major elements to compare between private and single-payer would include:
Risk pool size;
Profit;
Administrative costs;
Friction (to pay, or not to pay, that is the question...)
Elimination of the uncovered;
Peace of mind;
Regulation of costs;
What else?
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#317727 - 11/04/19 04:00 AM Re: Public option vs Medicare for All [Re: logtroll]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10351
Loc: North San Diego County
I agree. We can consider all sorts of fine points here, but you gotta remember half the voters have IQs under 100. If you can't sum it all up with one chart and less than 8 bullet points, they are going to think it's too complex to ever work. Put details on your website for us detail-oriented types. Give the public something they can understand on TV.

And no: I'm not being a snob. Everybody has a right to choose and to vote. Unlike Trump, I don't love the uneducated (because the rubes are easier to con). I respect them, and I want their lives to be better. I'm a very inclusive sort of guy.

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#317737 - 11/04/19 03:22 PM Re: Public option vs Medicare for All [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17279
Loc: Florida
The way things are looking right now MFA is more likely to get Biden elected than anything else. There's not a huge impetus to get it done as soon as possible and as such it shouldn't be a highlight of the campaigns. It's not winning votes for anybody but Biden.

Biden is all in with the ACA and it's popular with Democratic voters.

I haven't heard a peep from old Joe about raising anybody's taxes. With Biden at the helm I don't think you'll see either a public option or MFA.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#317747 - 11/05/19 04:27 AM Re: Public option vs Medicare for All [Re: logtroll]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10351
Loc: North San Diego County
Like I said, tying your campaign to MFA is a good way to lose the election. Hopefully it happens in the primaries instead of the general election.

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