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#317674 - 11/02/19 05:40 PM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: Greger]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 827
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
O'Rourke probably couldn't ride the anti-Trump vote to a win against Cornyn


Spot on.
I had early hopes for O'Rourke as the centrist candidate between Biden and Bernie. It didn't pan out as he was never able to capitalize on his earlier success in Texas. He has since taken all sorts of radical positions in an effort to catch the eyes of progressives, none of which would be popular if he ran against Cornyn.


I agree. When one changes their stripes, it usually doesn't work out although there has been some exceptions.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#317676 - 11/02/19 06:29 PM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: perotista]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43273
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: perotista
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
O'Rourke probably couldn't ride the anti-Trump vote to a win against Cornyn


Spot on.
I had early hopes for O'Rourke as the centrist candidate between Biden and Bernie. It didn't pan out as he was never able to capitalize on his earlier success in Texas. He has since taken all sorts of radical positions in an effort to catch the eyes of progressives, none of which would be popular if he ran against Cornyn.


I agree. When one changes their stripes, it usually doesn't work out although there has been some exceptions.

Authenticity works. Americans knew that Trump was a walking, talking rectum, and, lying, welsher - that's why nothing really sticks to him. It's not like he hid who he really was. Hmm

Trump, being Trump. smile
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#317680 - 11/02/19 08:13 PM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: pdx rick]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 827
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: perotista
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
O'Rourke probably couldn't ride the anti-Trump vote to a win against Cornyn


Spot on.
I had early hopes for O'Rourke as the centrist candidate between Biden and Bernie. It didn't pan out as he was never able to capitalize on his earlier success in Texas. He has since taken all sorts of radical positions in an effort to catch the eyes of progressives, none of which would be popular if he ran against Cornyn.


I agree. When one changes their stripes, it usually doesn't work out although there has been some exceptions.

Authenticity works. Americans knew that Trump was a walking, talking rectum, and, lying, welsher - that's why nothing really sticks to him. It's not like he hid who he really was. Hmm

Trump, being Trump. smile


A friend of mind described the 2016 election as between the devil we didn't know and devil we did. Trump was a businessman, a TV personality, no one knew how he would govern. Trump's the devil we didn't know. Everyone knew exactly how Hillary would, she was the devil we knew. He concluded by stating we opted for the devil we didn't know over the devil we did. Perhaps Clinton was too well known.

Yes, Trump, the seven time party switcher was one who changed his stripes to run as a Republican. He did win. Romney was another who changed his stripes from a liberal, Rockefeller Republican to a conservative one, he lost. There are exceptions, true indeed.

Changing his Stripes didn't help O'Rourke in his presidential bid. There were too many authentic progressives for folks to support. Now staying as a moderate probably also would have doomed any presidential aspirations. But it would in my opinion have helped him in any statewide race in Texas. Be that senator, governor or any other office.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#317693 - 11/03/19 01:59 AM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10345
Loc: North San Diego County
Most of that "devil we did know" stuff was just 30 years of Republican smears. Hillary has never been charged with any crime and she has been investigated countless times at the cost of millions of taxpayer dollars by Republicans. Are they really that incompetent? Is she the smartest criminal on Earth? Or is she actually just the victim of years of slander? You pick one. I'm waiting for an answer...

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#317708 - 11/03/19 01:32 PM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: pondering_it_all]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 827
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Most of that "devil we did know" stuff was just 30 years of Republican smears. Hillary has never been charged with any crime and she has been investigated countless times at the cost of millions of taxpayer dollars by Republicans. Are they really that incompetent? Is she the smartest criminal on Earth? Or is she actually just the victim of years of slander? You pick one. I'm waiting for an answer...


Few politicians/elected officials actually get charged with anything. I can remember a few congressmen, a couple of senators. Each individual views things differently, candidates, political parties, events, you name it. It is all a matter of personal perspective. A majority of Americans disagree with your perception of Hillary.

During 2016 she gave me the perception of being aloof, an elitist, that she deserved the presidency only because she was a woman. She had it in the bag. You're perception is entirely different. The e-mail scandal was my main reason for nixing her. I know she was never charged, given a free pass. Being a presidential candidate, one could expect nothing less.

I also know spending 21 years on active duty and another 26 working for the army as a department of the army civilian, that any Sp/4, sergeant along with any civilian was caught with that many classified messages, including TS SCI SAP material on an unclassified server or computer would have immediately lost their security clearance and probably would have been sent straight to Leavenworth. forget that many, not reporting one classified message that shows up on NIPR would be enough to lose your clearance. Automatically. We're talking SIPR and SCIF, SCI, TS netowrk stuff. By the way there is no way to move material from NIPR, SIPR or any of the TS networks to the other without having to copy and retype.

But that is old stuff, ancient history. What was important was how Americans as a whole viewed her on election day, 2016. 56% of all Americans viewed her negatively, this was made up of only 15% of democrats, 70% of independents, 92% of republicans. Question 10. If you want to compare favorable/unfavorable of Hillary against Trump, his is question 11.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/l37rosbwjp/econTabReport_lv.pdf

As time has passed, according to Gallup, Hillary's favorable's are still very low. Democrats give her a 77% favorable vs. 30% for independents and 4% from Republicans.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/243242/snapshot-hillary-clinton-favorable-rating-low.aspx

Fact is outside of her supporters, mostly democrats she wasn't liked or wanted. Trump was in the same boat, he wasn't liked either outside of his supporters and Republicans. Independents hated both or at least disliked both. 54% of all independents which make up around 40% of the electorate disliked both candidates and wanted neither one to become the next president.

https://news.gallup.com/opinion/polling-...candidates.aspx

My personal thinking, opinion, feeling is that in 2016 almost any other Democratic candidate would have trounced Trump. Sanders, O'Malley, Webb, Biden especially if he had entered. Would have won easily. That didn't happen and there is now no way to prove it. Just a feeling, mostly going by the favorable numbers of each vs. Trump. Where independents held both Trump and Clinton in disdain, they gave positive numbers to the rest I mentioned.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#317713 - 11/03/19 03:51 PM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43273
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Most of that "devil we did know" stuff was just 30 years of Republican smears. Hillary has never been charged with any crime and she has been investigated countless times at the cost of millions of taxpayer dollars by Republicans. Are they really that incompetent? Is she the smartest criminal on Earth? Or is she actually just the victim of years of slander? You pick one. I'm waiting for an answer...

Bow
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#317715 - 11/03/19 04:58 PM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: perotista]
Ujest Shurly Online   sleepy
journeyman

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 662
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
Originally Posted By: perotista
... caught with that many classified messages, including TS SCI SAP material on an unclassified server or computer would have immediately lost their security clearance and probably would have been sent straight to Leavenworth. ...


One thing you forget, as SecState, she was the Classification/de-Classification Authority for any and all State Department originated material. Additionally, it was determined that the material that was classified at the time of the investigation was not classified at the time the State Department was handling it.

Hell, our current President reveals very highly classified material, methods, and operations on almost a daily basis.

So which is worse, sensitive, but not classified material in email(s); or classified methods, operation and material exposure on television?


Edited by Ujest Shurly (11/03/19 04:58 PM)
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Now, get off my grass!

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#317716 - 11/03/19 06:00 PM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 827
So are you saying all of the so called classified e-mails were from the state department and were unclassified at the time Hillary received them? That none of them were from DOD, Homeland Security, FBI, the president, just the state department?

I find that hard to believe. As for Trump, I'll not defend him. My disdain for both Trump and Clinton are about as high as high can get.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#317717 - 11/03/19 07:19 PM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: perotista]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10328
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: perotista
So are you saying all of the so called classified e-mails were from the state department and were unclassified at the time Hillary received them?

My recollection is that the classified info in emails they found was all classified after they got into Clinton's server. I don't recall anything about which departments they were associated with.
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#317721 - 11/03/19 08:54 PM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: logtroll]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 827
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Originally Posted By: perotista
So are you saying all of the so called classified e-mails were from the state department and were unclassified at the time Hillary received them?

My recollection is that the classified info in emails they found was all classified after they got into Clinton's server. I don't recall anything about which departments they were associated with.


While I think Hillary got away with something that no one else ever would have. It's water under the bridge. I do know with DOD that all plans are classified from the get go until the operation is completed. She had 22 TS SAP (Top Secret Special Access Program) e-mails on her sever. If you ever been involved in any of these, you know those types of messages/e-mails stay in a SCIF and can't be removed.

Having dealt with the State Department before, their security both electronic and physical is about as lax as one can get. This was a long time ago while on active duty, but I doubt their security procedures has changed much.

I can understand one not understanding the difference between NIPR, SIPR and SCI Networks and how they work. I can also understand the reluctance to inform the public about how they work, what they're used for and what type of traffic, e-mails they carry.

Perhaps, it was better to let her skate than bring how we as a country handle our information and distribution of it out into the public arena. I understand all of this, it caused me to vote against her, but not to be bothered she wasn't charged. It's all probably for the best.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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