Current Topics
RoundTable for Summer 2020
by rporter314
0 seconds ago
Is it too soon to be talking 2020?
by rporter314
4 minutes 46 seconds ago
Global warming predictions
by jgw
13 minutes 16 seconds ago
Coronavirus: The Plague of The 21st Century?
by pondering_it_all
Today at 05:18 AM
Bob Woodward's book details Trump's chaotic and dysfunctional White House
by pdx rick
Yesterday at 08:13 PM
The Boogaloo Bois
by pondering_it_all
Yesterday at 08:17 AM
How the world sees U.S. and Trump
by jgw
09/16/20 09:01 PM
The Trump campaign is broke
by pdx rick
09/15/20 12:20 PM
Barr is acting as ‘personal henchman’ of Trump
by Greger
09/13/20 09:33 PM
West Coast Burning
by jgw
09/13/20 04:42 PM
Half of troops have an unfavorable opinion of President Bone Spurs
by Greger
09/08/20 08:25 PM
Portland. A Turning Point?
by Irked
09/08/20 04:02 AM
Covid Long Haulers
by jgw
09/07/20 06:23 PM
The Republican Platform
by jgw
09/03/20 07:15 PM
A post, on facebook, by my granddaughter that covers it all pretty good!
by pondering_it_all
09/02/20 07:27 PM
The Democratic Fight
by jgw
09/02/20 06:09 PM
voters who don't
by pondering_it_all
09/01/20 08:35 AM
There needs to be a ‘real reckoning’ for Trump’s abuses if Biden wins
by pdx rick
08/31/20 12:43 AM
WV woman goes to Mexico with her daughter and series of TOP SECRET U.S docs
by pondering_it_all
08/30/20 08:06 PM
Steve Bannon, 3 Others Arrested and Charged With Wire Fraud, Money Laundering
by Greger
08/29/20 03:29 PM
Forum Stats
6292 Members
60 Forums
16993 Topics
302753 Posts

Max Online: 294 @ 12/06/17 12:57 AM
Google Adsense
Page 12 of 28 < 1 2 ... 10 11 12 13 14 ... 27 28 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#317722 - 11/03/19 09:03 PM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Ujest Shurly Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 661
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
What I am saying is State Dept. Inquiry Into Clinton Emails Finds No Deliberate Mishandling of Classified Information and that most if not all State Department originated material was not classified at the time and if it was, she as the SecState was the declassifying/classifying authority as such could decide to declassify on the spot. Additionally, the classified found on the server was sent to her, she was not the originator. Though she should have done something about that, piss poor OpSec.

Now as to the email server, not a smart move on her part.

P.S. At the bottom of the article is a little ditty about the Trump Administration, and the Trump and Kushner clan's use of email servers and wireless phones. I wonder what the Republicans are going to do, beside nothing.


Edited by Ujest Shurly (11/03/19 09:16 PM)
_________________________
Vote 2020!

Life is like a PB&J sandwich. The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

Top
#317723 - 11/03/19 10:16 PM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: logtroll]
rporter314 Online   content
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7258
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I recollect the total emails which were mostly classified ad hoc as 113. Of that only 3 threads actually had classified material embedded in the body of the email. All of those were "confidential" and marked by the "C" indicating confidential. And of all of those all actual classified material was stripped from the body leaving only unclassified words.

Now of the other 110 threads most had to do with State Dept responses to a known black operation i.e. drone assassination strikes in pakistan. And all of these were originated by news articles which the sender requested State Dept responses. They were all classified because they discussed a black op which BTW was publicly known and especially after Pres Obama declassified on the fly a la Mr Trump.

In my opinion much ado about 3 email threads which had some "confidential" headers embedded in the body of the emails.

What really rankles me is the lack of good preemptive judgement on her part especially after 20 years of demonization by right wing nuts ... you would have thought she would have the good sense to use private email account for her private business and the easily hackable government servers for government business.

As far as deleting emails, NARA regulations at the tie allowed every person who had government accounts the opportunity to delete non-government emails at every persons discretion. That she would delete personal emails would be the same as any secretary in the pool deleting private non-government related emails.

As far as all the hubbub about backups etc coming from the right wing nuts ... they are all idiots with no knowledge nor understanding of how email servers work.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

Top
#317724 - 11/03/19 11:33 PM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: rporter314]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 824
Originally Posted By: rporter314
I recollect the total emails which were mostly classified ad hoc as 113. Of that only 3 threads actually had classified material embedded in the body of the email. All of those were "confidential" and marked by the "C" indicating confidential. And of all of those all actual classified material was stripped from the body leaving only unclassified words.

Now of the other 110 threads most had to do with State Dept responses to a known black operation i.e. drone assassination strikes in pakistan. And all of these were originated by news articles which the sender requested State Dept responses. They were all classified because they discussed a black op which BTW was publicly known and especially after Pres Obama declassified on the fly a la Mr Trump.

In my opinion much ado about 3 email threads which had some "confidential" headers embedded in the body of the emails.

What really rankles me is the lack of good preemptive judgement on her part especially after 20 years of demonization by right wing nuts ... you would have thought she would have the good sense to use private email account for her private business and the easily hackable government servers for government business.

As far as deleting emails, NARA regulations at the tie allowed every person who had government accounts the opportunity to delete non-government emails at every persons discretion. That she would delete personal emails would be the same as any secretary in the pool deleting private non-government related emails.

As far as all the hubbub about backups etc coming from the right wing nuts ... they are all idiots with no knowledge nor understanding of how email servers work.


Well, perhaps a couple of thousand?

The State Department redacted about 2,000 emails before releasing them, saying they contain classified information — including some that have been withheld entirely because they contain "top secret" information.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/clinton-email-half-true/


In a letter to lawmakers, the intelligence community’s internal watchdog says some of Clinton’s emails contained information classified Top Secret/Special Access Program, a secrecy designation that includes some of the most closely held U.S. intelligence matters.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/hil...cret-ig-n499886

If I remember right the number was 24 TS SAP messages or e-mails.

During my time in the military, I was involved in a lot of this both on active duty and as a civilian working for the army. Now as I stated, DOD is a lot more security conscious, aware and stricter than the state department. I never seen a department as lax when it came to security, both physical and electronic as the state department.

I for one don't hold states security procedures in high regard. Of course the two agencies are involved in completely different jobs. One is more concerned with diplomatic relations, passports and the like, the other in national security.

I have no doubt other state department personnel and heads used private e-mail accounts instead of the governments. That's the state department. I'd never even attempt to defend anyone who did that.

Like I said, it was probably decided it was better to let her skate than to have to bring out into the public arena a lot of stuff the government doesn't want the public to know. That I understand.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

Top
#317728 - 11/04/19 04:15 AM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10339
Loc: North San Diego County
Really? The Republicans in Congress "decided to let her skate"? No way: They would have LOVED to charge her with a crime, any crime at all. Right before the election? But they couldn't, because no prosecution would be successful, or even undertaken by any prosecutor. Her defense would have pointed out that Colin Powell had done the same thing, and her server was way more secure than a government server with thousands of users on it.

And your comments on "how the public felt about her" just supports my point. It's all about perception, and the Republicans succeeded in smearing her. Many did not trust her, because of that smear.

From a security point of view, she would have been MUCH better than Trump: He's tweeting, talking on TV, and having private conferences with Russians where he gives away all kinds of secure information.

Top
#317732 - 11/04/19 05:23 AM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: perotista]
rporter314 Online   content
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7258
Loc: Highlands, Tx
You are talking of individual emails, I was talking about email threads.

Also note just talking about a black ops program, which was top secret, except everyone in the world knew about it, would have been classified as TS, except these folks did not believe simply developing a response to news articles was the same as embedding copy and pasted reports.

Your citation does not clarify anything. The accusation was she sent or received classified material. Now what I interpret that to mean is part of whole classified reports were attached or embedded in emails. I do not consider a discussion of State Dept responses to news articles regarding classified materials as classified material because the actual material to be classified is not a part of the discussion (my impression at the time from public sources). I suppose if one were to be a stickler about even obliquely mentioning classified material then there may have been cause to classify. Thus a discussion of the Pakistan drone assassination program instigated by a news article about the secret program would to me not make sense to classify, except inherently because it was closed to the public.

Note also in that citation there is no mention of how the email threads were started. I think context offers a better picture of what was going on, rather than a narrative without explanation i.e. conservatives like to say even though the emails were classified after the fact, we should look at them as if they had been classified when sent, which offers no context.

Now since I mentioned the TS CIA Pakistan Drone assassination program, this thread is now classified and you should read it ... well you know what comes next.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

Top
#317733 - 11/04/19 12:59 PM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 824
Simply put, to Clinton supporters she did no wrong. To the anti-Clintonista's, she should have been tarred and feathered and thrown in jail for putting this country's security at risk. You're not going to change any of their minds.

The FBI decided to late her skate, they probably had consultations with other organizations and decided its better to keep our operations and how we do things, disseminate things secret and from public view. Charging her and going to court would have put these things out in the public arena in full view of friends and enemies. Better to let her skate than have that happen.

We'll have to disagree on why the public disliked Hillary. It was no secret that they did way back in February of 2016 when a poll showed that 56% of all Americans wanted the democrats to nominate someone other than Hillary. The Democrats didn't heed what all Americans wanted, just Democrats which was their right. Now it is all Americans that decide elections, not just Democrats which they found out that November of 2016. The warning was there, the Democrats just ignored it.

I think Hillary has caused her own dissatisfaction among Americans, not just the Republican smears as you call them. She still isn't liked today by a majority of Americans. 77% of Democrats like her, 30% of independents and 4% of Republicans. It was Hillary's dislike by independents that let Trump won the independent vote and the White House. In 2016, only 27% independents liked or had a favorable view of Hillary compared to 30% today.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/243242/snapshot-hillary-clinton-favorable-rating-low.aspx

Regardless of who we blame or the cause, the fact remains that Hillary plain isn't liked.

I do agree, it is all a matter of personal perspective. The good news from 2016 was that Hillary lost, the bad news was that Trump won. Such is life and politics. It was in my opinion bad politics to nominate someone as disliked as Trump was by America as a whole and more disliked than Trump by independents, 70% disliked of Hillary vs. 57% disliked of Trump back in 2016. Questions 10 and 11.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/l37rosbwjp/econTabReport_lv.pdf
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

Top
#317735 - 11/04/19 02:52 PM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: perotista]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17263
Loc: Florida
I was a Clinton supporter. I didn't imagine she was an angel but I don't require that in a candidate. I do require some sort of competence and experience. She'd have been an excellent president, as presidents go, not the best, not the worst. Trump is pretty obviously the worst.

And there's a fair chance he'll be re-elected. I do hope your joy at Trump's election or Clinton's defeat is tempered by the complete lack of effective government we have achieved by elevating a complete idiot to the position.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

Top
#317738 - 11/04/19 06:08 PM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 824
Not being all that partisan, I really didn't care who won in 2016. That is obvious by my third party vote against both. Would Clinton have been a better president, that is in my opinion a matter of personal perspectives. I'm glad Hillary lost, sad Trump won. That sums up my feelings.

I personally believe that each would have left this country in far worst shape when either one first enter office than when either one leaves office. That either one would have harmed this country. Of course that is my belief, not yours. It's my belief and perspectives that decide my vote. Not anyone else's.

I have no problem with those who think Trump is the greatest president ever and those who think he is the worst. Personal and political beliefs come into play. I also believe that almost any other Democrat other than Hillary would have trounced Trump. That Hillary by her laziness, her ho hum campaign, her inept campaign strategy, her persona that left folks with the feeling she was aloof and an elitist led to her loss more than the Russians or anything else.

Now I seen almost all Clinton supporters and most Democrats overlook the above and place all the blame on the Russians and none on Hillary. I've come to expect that, that doesn't bother me either. I think their nuts, way too partisan that perhaps they won't take the lessons learned from 2016 and apply them to 2020. It might be that those who won't learn from history are bound to repeat the same mistakes.

The biggest lesson the Democrats should learn is that candidates matter. Perhaps not to Republicans and Democrats, history has shown they vote for their party's candidate 90% of the time regardless of who their candidate is. It is to the independent, the less to non-partisan, the unaffiliated, the swing voter where candidates matter comes into play. Not the R or the D next to a candidate's name which for the most part is all the Republicans and democrats pay attention to. I wonder if the democrats have learned this yet. Time will tell.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

Top
#317739 - 11/04/19 07:31 PM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: perotista]
rporter314 Online   content
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7258
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
Simply put, to Clinton supporters she did no wrong. To the anti-Clintonista's, she should have been tarred and feathered and thrown in jail for putting this country's security at risk. You're not going to change any of their minds.

Perhaps true and valid but may I say, had Sec Pompeo done the same thing with emails, I would have come to the same conclusion i.e the minor infraction of embedding the confidential header "C" in emails and stripping out all the confidential material, and discussing responses to CIA black op programs from news article starters. Of course it was never stated but I wonder, were those threads classified because the news articles mentioned the programs or because of the discussion??? Had Sec Clinton and staff been embedding or attaching classified docs in those emails, yeah she should have been persecuted [ed.].

I did not support her but I was forced to vote for her as the alternative was far worse ... not just a little but far worse.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

Top
#317740 - 11/04/19 07:44 PM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: perotista]
rporter314 Online   content
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7258
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
Now I seen almost all Clinton supporters and most Democrats overlook the above and place all the blame on the Russians and none on Hillary.
I am neither but do think if one is to assign "blame" for a political loss, then it was a complex mix of things. Despite the fact she was a competent candidate she lacked authenticity. While there may have been some influence from Russian meddling (I suspect it was more to bring out the Trump vote rather than depress the Clinton vote), I believe the major factor in the loss was Dir Comey's last minute announcement. I could almost see the black ink on the pages before me listing the latest poll numbers changing as if in some surreal TV show.

Who could have predicted Mr trump would be the voice of bigotry in America? I never envisioned it as something which would inspire the deplorables to come out or give such a highly flawed human the chance to be president of the US.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

Top
Page 12 of 28 < 1 2 ... 10 11 12 13 14 ... 27 28 >

Moderator:  Doug Thompson, Greger, NW Ponderer 
Who's Online
1 registered (rporter314), 27 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Superfly, GreatNewsTonight, danarhea, RoughDraft274, CPWILL
6292 Registered Users
A2