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#319205 - 12/22/19 05:17 AM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
Great interview with Mike Moore on the Useful Idiots podcast this week. Love him or hate him but he called it right in 2016. Might just be worth listening to him for 2020.

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#319217 - 12/22/19 06:31 PM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: chunkstyle]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3595
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I think you are saying that the Democrats are:
1. A Capitalist Organization
2. Its split into two parts
3. This the the cause of all of our problems

We need the capitalist gone and all not belonging to the righteous pure left gone as well, this will fix everything!

Wonderful! Reduce the Democratic voters to 20% of its membership and then have a revolution.

GOOD THINKING! WELL DONE! Your dedication to losing is truly impressive! Thank you for the clarification!

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#319229 - 12/22/19 09:16 PM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
In order for us to get to where we should be, one first must get a handle on what we are. Right now, "what we are" is in the hands of another group who thinks we should be a barbaric far right authoritarian theocratic oligarchy.

A move back to a center left in power is a distinct and effective sea change away from that, provided it is a convincing and irrefutable win that is perceived as an effective rebuke to the barbarians.

From there the leap to a more leftist position is a shorter gap.
_________________________
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#319231 - 12/23/19 01:29 AM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
Originally Posted By: jgw
I think you are saying that the Democrats are:
1. A Capitalist Organization
2. Its split into two parts
3. This the the cause of all of our problems

We need the capitalist gone and all not belonging to the righteous pure left gone as well, this will fix everything!

Wonderful! Reduce the Democratic voters to 20% of its membership and then have a revolution.

GOOD THINKING! WELL DONE! Your dedication to losing is truly impressive! Thank you for the clarification!


Gaslight much?...

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#319233 - 12/23/19 01:42 AM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17263
Loc: Florida
Quote:
From there the leap to a more leftist position is a shorter gap.

But it's a leap that will never be made. It's a leap we've been waiting for and a leap that never seems to come. Only the voters can make the leap. The party will not make it for us. Elect a centrist you'll get more centrist government.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#319234 - 12/23/19 01:55 AM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
In order for us to get to where we should be, one first must get a handle on what we are. Right now, "what we are" is in the hands of another group who thinks we should be a barbaric far right authoritarian theocratic oligarchy.

A move back to a center left in power is a distinct and effective sea change away from that, provided it is a convincing and irrefutable win that is perceived as an effective rebuke to the barbarians.

From there the leap to a more leftist position is a shorter gap.


I guess it would depend on what you consider ‘center left’?
My understanding of it would be someone such as FDR.
If that’s what your advocating then, yeah sure.
If it’s a ‘return to normalcy’ incrementalism argument to reinstall the neoliberal consensus of austerity and technocracy then I suggest stocking up on brass as it’s been a proven loser against the rising fascist tides.

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#319235 - 12/23/19 02:44 AM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
A good article that doesn’t flinch at what’s staring at us in 2020:

‘As the Trump impeachment drama peaks and then fizzles, and the nation descends into the horror of its next grim presidential election, likely pitting two right-leaning white male septuagenarians (Joe Biden and Donald Trump) against each other, I am reminded of a brilliant reflection on how fascism can rise to power from the great Dutch astronomer and council communist Anton Pannekoek. “Parliaments evermore serve to mask, by a flood of oratory,” Pannekoek wrote in Nazi-occupied Holland, “the rule of big capital behind the semblance of the self-determination of people. So the cant of the politicians, the lack of inspiring principles, the petty bargaining behind the scenes, intensifies the conviction in critical observers not acquainted with the deeper causes that parliamentarianism is a pool of corruption and democracy a chimera—and … that the strong personality must prevail, as independent ruler of the state.”

“The fascist in the White House,” the WSWS reported, “constitutes an immense danger to democratic rights and must be forced from power. But this urgent and historic task cannot be left in the hands of the Democrats. It can be achieved only through an independent mobilization of the working class in intractable opposition to all factions of the American financial oligarchy.”

There’s no electoral and constitutional Santa Claus coming to bend the arc of American history away from a descent into fascism and toward democracy and decency. Only a mass movement of, by, and for the people beneath and beyond the election cycle and stale aristo-republican constitutionalism has any chance of doing that.

Is This Goodbye to the American Republic?

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#319239 - 12/23/19 01:45 PM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: Greger]
Hamish Howl Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 608
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
From there the leap to a more leftist position is a shorter gap.

But it's a leap that will never be made. It's a leap we've been waiting for and a leap that never seems to come. Only the voters can make the leap. The party will not make it for us. Elect a centrist you'll get more centrist government.


I'm not a fan of centrism, but I'll take it over this s*** any day.
_________________________
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

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#319240 - 12/23/19 02:39 PM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: Hamish Howl]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
It’s about the only argument you can make for it really.
The same group making it in 2016 will be making it again in 2020.

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#319241 - 12/23/19 02:48 PM Re: And we're off and running! [Re: chunkstyle]
Hamish Howl Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 608
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
It’s about the only argument you can make for it really.
The same group making it in 2016 will be making it again in 2020.


This is all normal.

Eventually, we'll just have to set up guillotines.
_________________________
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

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