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#317817 - 11/07/19 05:08 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: logtroll]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7203
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I like that Sen Graham supports an incompetent president. Makes for an excellent list of qualities one should have to run for the presidency ... and incompetence does not even top the list.

You left out the real possibility of a campaign violation, Unfortunately there is only a penalty involved which may amount to $M's. Of course the problem is the FEC can not meet to impose the penalty (if proven to be a violation) since there are not enough members to have a quorum, which apparently the administration is well aware of.

What an amazing perversion of democracy to have a leader who has for all intents and purposes transformed the DoJ into his personal protection service, and he has stopped the FEC from filing charges of campaign violations, thus effectively circumventing campaign finance laws & regulations.

We are in the shadow of extreme corruption of the federal government.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

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#317820 - 11/07/19 05:48 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: logtroll]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42746
Loc: Puget Sound, WA



Lindsey Graham might as well put wheels on his goal posts - he's constantly moving them. coffee
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#317845 - 11/09/19 02:20 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: logtroll]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 590
With impeachment looming in the near future, I found this article interesting. It reflects the polarization and ultra high partisanship of today. It also reveals in my opinion how Trump has become a cult figure, for those who both support and oppose him. Those who support or oppose Trump are very cultish in their zeal of support or opposition.

62% of people who approve of the job Donald Trump is doing as president say they can't think of anything he could do that would cause him to lose their support, according to a Monmouth University poll published Tuesday.

Also

The other side: Among those who disapprove of the job Trump is doing, 70% say there's nothing the president could do to gain their support.

https://www.axios.com/monmouth-poll-trump-approval-a05b8144-1d1b-4296-a0d4-6ca0390b05ee.html

Not being a political party animal, it's very hard for me to fathom the love given Trump by his supporter and the hate thrust upon him by his opponents. I seen this type of hard core feelings taking shape under Obama, where Republicans felt Obama could do no good, Democrats felt he could do no wrong. But not to the heights we see today.

Perhaps this is just the result of the political era we entered into with all its polarization and ultra high partisanship. Perhaps that is why both major parties are shrinking. More and more Americans are deserting both major parties, maybe because they don't like the polarization and partisanship that both represent and has caused.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#317846 - 11/09/19 03:37 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: perotista]
pdx rick Offline
Member
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42746
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: perotista
62% of people who approve of the job Donald Trump is doing as president say they can't think of anything he could do that would cause him to lose their support...

Commit extortion, fraud a charity, set-up a scam University, cheat on his wife with a porn star and then pay the porn star to be silent, embarrass the US on the world stage, shoot someone on 5th avenue - absolutely nothing.

Oh well, Trump needs to go anyway. smile

Originally Posted By: perotista
Perhaps this is just the result of the political era we entered into with all its polarization and ultra high partisanship. Perhaps that is why both major parties are shrinking. More and more Americans are deserting both major parties, maybe because they don't like the polarization and partisanship that both represent and has caused.

I'm not buying this "independent" stuff, as I know in discussions from Disqus of people I have chatted with there, that there are right-leaning "independents" that would not vote for a Democrat even if a gun was held to their head - and visa versa.

Hmm
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#317854 - 11/09/19 05:38 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: pdx rick]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 590
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: perotista
62% of people who approve of the job Donald Trump is doing as president say they can't think of anything he could do that would cause him to lose their support...

Commit extortion, fraud a charity, set-up a scam University, cheat on his wife with a porn star and then pay the porn star to be silent, embarrass the US on the world stage, shoot someone on 5th avenue - absolutely nothing.

Oh well, Trump needs to go anyway. smile

Originally Posted By: perotista
Perhaps this is just the result of the political era we entered into with all its polarization and ultra high partisanship. Perhaps that is why both major parties are shrinking. More and more Americans are deserting both major parties, maybe because they don't like the polarization and partisanship that both represent and has caused.

I'm not buying this "independent" stuff, as I know in discussions from Disqus of people I have chatted with there, that there are right-leaning "independents" that would not vote for a Democrat even if a gun was held to their head - and visa versa.

Hmm


History shows that those who affiliate themselves with the two major parties vote for their party's candidate an average of 90% of the time. Independents lean Republican and lean Democratic, they vote approximately for the party they lean toward roughly 75% of the time. Now those independents with no leans, who the heck knows who they'll vote for. They're all over the place. I call those independents with no leans pure or true independents. Now they only make up around 10% of the total electorate. Sometimes a bit more.

Gallup as of 13 Oct 2019 list party affiliation as 26% Republican, 29% Democratic. Independents lean Republican 15% of the electorate, independents lean Democratic 19% with true or pure independents at 11%. Now these numbers are dynamic and change month to month.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#317863 - 11/09/19 09:35 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: perotista]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7203
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
it's very hard for me to fathom the love given Trump by his supporter and the hate thrust upon him by his opponents. I seen this type of hard core feelings taking shape under Obama, where Republicans felt Obama could do no good, Democrats felt he could do no wrong.

Bigotry. I still do not know why so many people ignore it. Why would so many Republicans support someone who is not a Republican nor believe in Republican ideology? When you strip away the curtains it is clear something else drives the support. Good looks? Large hands? Sex scandals? Poor business practices? Lack of intellectual acuity? Come on ... remember all the "real" Republicans, the establishment Republicans who did not support him? Anyone believe xSen and xAG Sessions is not a bigot? He is not a KKK bigot, he just hires people like S Miller and supports people like Trump, who are bigots.

Yes bigotry explains both the support for Mr trump and the hatred of Pres Obama. At least in my non-scientific survey of local politics, that statement is absolutely true and valid. Of course I suppose pollsters could devise a poll which would guarantee some other explanation, but why contort oneself to get a preconceived conclusion when real authentic explanations are available.

So why do Democrats hate Mr Trump and love Pres Obama? I can't speak for other folks but I don't hate Mr Trump, nor do I believe Pres Obama walked on water.

I never liked Mr trump as a person. I don't care to be around people who have very large egos without portfolio. When he became a candidate it became apparent to me he is a narcissist. In a way I feel sorry for him. He will never be a whole human, just another broken person living in a delusion. Regarding his politics, I disagree with everything he believes or has done. I don't hate him for what I believe are misguided politics, but I do think his politics are a result of his narcissism. Everything he does or says can be viewed through the lens of his narcissism to make sense of what is seemingly nonsensical. He has compromised everything America stands for. He is incompetent despite people saying he has a different managerial style. He has no style. He is simply an incompetent narcissist.

Why do I like Pres Obama? I didn't vote for him, and in fact I rather loosely supported a Republican who did not run for office. However I naturally found as a pragmatic liberal his policy initiatives were congruent with my political ideals. At the same time I disagreed with some of his policies, as I thought there were better alternatives. It could be of course political realities prevented more aggressive policies but then I was not in a position to know that. Also remember he was the alternative to a Republican Party which started a war over non-existent WMD's. He was the president who took the lead of a country which was in the throes of economic collapse and righted the ship as it floundered. and my favorite ... he gave, in a most painful manner, intelligent answers to questions. He was not involved in any known corrupt practices.

It is hard for me to fathom how anyone misses the obviousness of the answers to your implicit question. Maybe you are too close to the trees.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

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#317864 - 11/09/19 09:46 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: perotista]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7203
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I have seen similar studies (you should have included the link to the one you cite) and those numbers look about right. And the conclusions are probably close. I mean it seems kinda obvious if you are a liberal leaning independent you would vote for a Democrat/Republican ... since a Democrat/Republican probably supports your political ideals. I don't think it took a survey to figure that out.

I listened to some author today who claimed an Independent could win a presidential. This guy is clearly delusional or way ahead of his time.

Can you imagine the scenario if in a 3 party race the votes came out without a clear winner. It goes to the House and guess what, unless third party candidates had won enough seats in Congress, the vote would go along party lines and the House could elect a president who did not get a majority of popular votes nor the required electoral college votes. Sounds l like the SC electing a president ... o that already happened. Of course even if a third party had enough congressmen, based on a number of studies they would lean either left or right anyway.

So the question is, is there a legitimate third party platform which is neither left nor right???
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

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#317867 - 11/10/19 02:41 AM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: logtroll]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 590
Since we don't have a viable third party, it doesn't really matter which way the third party leans. There probably will never be a viable third party. Republicans and Democrats write our election laws and they do so as a mutual protection act. If there is one thing both major parties agree on, it is no viable third party will ever arise.

Then there is the financial aspect with corporations, wall street firms, lobbyist, special interests, mega, huge money donors etc. giving their money to the two major parties. Heck, Clinton raised and spent 1.191 billion in 2016 to Trump's 636.8 million. Johnson was in third place with 3 million.

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/graphics/2016-presidential-campaign-fundraising/

I'll never understand why all these third parties insist on running candidates for the presidency. If they want to become viable, they need to start off at the grass roots level. Mayors, county commissioners, city councils, state legislatures where it doesn't take tens of millions of dollars to run. Once successful there, then move to statewide, governors, secretary of state, senators, etc.

I suppose none of the third parties want to take the time to do it right. It would take 10-20 years to become viable. Quite a lot of the existing third parties are to the right of the GOP and to the left of the Democrats.

Personally, I think the two party system worked just fine when both parties had their liberal and conservative wings. Each party would have a battle over their candidates between each faction and usually avoid nominating candidate to the extreme left and right. Electability played a more important role than ideology.

We went to the modern primary system in 1976, I wonder if that was a mistake. Looking at modern history, under the old system we had FDR ranked 1 among all presidents, Truman 6, Eisenhower 8, JFK 10, LBJ 13, Nixon 33. Carter in 1976 began the modern primary system is ranked 27, Reagan 16, G.H.W. Bush 22, Bill Clinton 18, G.W. Bush 32. Obama and Trump hasn't been around enough or out of office enough time to know or find out how their policies effect the long term future of this nation.

Historians tell us a president needs to be out of office 20 years to rank or rate them fairly accurately as given that time it lets them know how their policies effected this nation in the long term. It also give the partisanship time to die down.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#317868 - 11/10/19 06:06 AM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: logtroll]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
The future of the Republican Party is FORMER Kentucky Governor Matt Bevin refusing to concede.

Expect the same nonsense from a defeated or even impeached Donald Trump.
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#317869 - 11/10/19 07:46 AM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42746
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
The future of the Republican Party is FORMER Kentucky Governor Matt Bevin refusing to concede.

What...a...crybaby. coffee
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