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#317943 - 11/14/19 06:59 AM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: logtroll]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42124
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


The GOP wants Americans to believe that Trump was very interested in corruption in Ukraine - when Trump has ever expressed interest in corruption anywhere else on Earth, plus the fact that Trump ran a scam "University" and stole from his charitable Foundation - two very definitions of corruption.

Hmm
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#317944 - 11/14/19 08:12 AM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17185
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
The GOP wants Americans to believe that Trump was very interested in corruption in Ukraine - when Trump has ever expressed interest in corruption anywhere else on Earth...
Oh, Rick, Trump is always interested in corruption, especially in Ukraine. He's been trying to corrupt them since before he took office. That why he hired Manafort. Who knows more about Ukrainian corruption than him? He practically invented it!

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#317945 - 11/14/19 11:12 AM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: NW Ponderer]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9593
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Quote:
A THOUGHT FOR TODAY:
No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed, and love of power. -P.J. O'Rourke, writer (b. 14 Nov 1947)
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You can’t solve a problem without first understanding what the problem is.

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#317963 - 11/15/19 12:05 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9593
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Good morning! I perceive that we will be adjusting our perception of “quid pro quo” to become “bribery”, which should add a certain improved level of efficiency to the impeachment process. Republicans are expected to welcome this streamlining technique as it will save the taxpayers a good deal of money increased deficit spending by reducing confusion and unnecessary muddling about in distracting arguments. (Personally, I think “extortion” is a better descriptor but the Founders, in their crazy naiveté, apparently didn’t think that a president would ever be that blatantly criminal and corrupt, or that the presidency would ever be considered above the law as a result of a DoJ memo).

Bribery!
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#317983 - 11/15/19 09:50 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: logtroll]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14632
Loc: Whittier, California
Trump is impeached but the GOP Senate plays "party over country" and acquits him, but then he LOSES the 2020 election...

What nightmarish scenarios can you imagine happening between 11/3/2020 and 1/20/2021? That is seventy-nine days where a lame duck Trump is able to pretty much do whatever he wants, yes?

Saddam set the Iraqi oilfields on fire.
Extrapolate that.
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Thats all fine and good,
BUT THE BOTTOM LINE: POLITICAL BIAS WAS NOT A FACTOR.

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#317989 - 11/16/19 02:16 AM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9593
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Been following the impeachment, of course, but not close enough to be tracking all the characters that well, or the timelines. I had a good deal of driving today, though, and listened to about three hours of the Yovanovitch testimony, which was eye opening.

Here’s a thing I haven’t heard brought out - it’s related to the question of why Yovanovitch was smeared and yanked from her job (which seems to be accepted at Hmm).

Yovanovitch was smeared by Ghouliani and Lutsenko (a corrupt prosecutor);
Lutsenko and Yovanovitch were adversaries;
Trump praised Lutsenko, even though he is supposedly concerned about Ukrainian corruption ;
Lutsenko was out because of Zelensky’s election;

Doesn’t it seem obvious that Trump had a deal with Lutsenko to smear Biden, then saw it evaporate due in part to Yovanovitch’s corruption fighting?

Trump was fully engaged with the corrupt Ukraine government (in his natural element) and then lost his connections and had to start from scratch by putting the muscle on the new guy, leading in with a little extortion.

Why else would he characterize Marie Yovanovitch as a bad person?
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#317995 - 11/16/19 01:45 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17185
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Trump is impeached but the GOP Senate plays "party over country" and acquits him, but then he LOSES the 2020 election...

What nightmarish scenarios can you imagine happening between 11/3/2020 and 1/20/2021? That is seventy-nine days where a lame duck Trump is able to pretty much do whatever he wants, yes?

Saddam set the Iraqi oilfields on fire.
Extrapolate that.
This has been my biggest fear throughout this process. He pardoned three war criminals yesterday just to distract from the impeachment. He allowed the invasion of Syria just to distract from the impeachment. There will be interminable lawsuits to correct the misadventures we will see. He will probably do more damage in those 79 days than he has in the last 1000.

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#317997 - 11/16/19 03:42 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: logtroll]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6978
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
Why else would he characterize Marie Yovanovitch as a bad person?
well ... yeah

Republicans kept saying she had nothing to do with the "phone call", but it is obvious she had everything to do with the "phone call". The conspirators would not have been able to conduct their nefarious plot if she continued as Amb. They needed a more ... amenable person in place. She had to go.

Originally Posted By: Findlaw
A criminal conspiracy exists when two or more people agree to commit almost any unlawful act, then take some action toward its completion. The action taken need not itself be a crime, but it must indicate that those involved in the conspiracy knew of the plan and intended to break the law. A person may be convicted of conspiracy even if the actual crime was never committed.


What was the crime?
Originally Posted By: 52 USC 30121
Contributions and donations by foreign nationals
(a) Prohibition
It shall be unlawful for-
(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make-
(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;


The question is whether this is a criminal violation or a civil violation. In either case, a crime has been committed by the current occupant of the WH.
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#317999 - 11/16/19 06:47 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: NW Ponderer]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14632
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
This has been my biggest fear throughout this process. He pardoned three war criminals yesterday just to distract from the impeachment. He allowed the invasion of Syria just to distract from the impeachment. There will be interminable lawsuits to correct the misadventures we will see. He will probably do more damage in those 79 days than he has in the last 1000.


_________________________
Thats all fine and good,
BUT THE BOTTOM LINE: POLITICAL BIAS WAS NOT A FACTOR.

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#318001 - 11/16/19 07:03 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: rporter314]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42124
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Quote:
Why else would he characterize Marie Yovanovitch as a bad person?
well ... yeah

Republicans kept saying she had nothing to do with the "phone call", but it is obvious she had everything to do with the "phone call". The conspirators would not have been able to conduct their nefarious plot if she continued as Amb. They needed a more ... amenable person in place. She had to go.

Exactly. Amb. Yovanovitch stood in the way of Trump's own corruption that he sent Giuliani over to Ukraine to further. Trump initially had his corrupt Ukrainian official, prosecutor general Yuri Lutsenko, but Lutsenko lost his job and Trump had to start over.

THAT is why Amb. Yovanovich had to go, she stood in the way of Trump's Plan B which was to get to the newly-elected President of Ukraine to publicly state an investigation into the Biden's AND to clear Russia of the US Intel Community's fact-finding evidence that Russia DID interfere in our 2016 election.

The pressure that Trump asserted on Ukraine President Z was to withhold the Javelins that Congress approved in February 2019.

Hmm

Side note: I don't understand why the media is not specifically naming the military aid that Trump was holding-up, it was the Javelins that President Z asked about in the July 25th call.

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