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#316168 - 10/01/19 12:52 PM Re: The Trump/Biden/Ukraine thing [Re: logtroll]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42352
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


According to this Washington Post timeline, it now seems that Trump's involvement to get back at Joe Biden is a two-for: (a) knock-off the Dem leading Trump in the polls (b) payback for getting Paul Manafort exposed for off-the-book payments.

I did not realize that Paul Manafort was exposed as a result of the US via VP Biden's insistence that the Ukraine investigate corruption in 2014-15.

Knowing how extremely vindictive Trump is, this is all starting to make sense now. smile

Originally Posted By: Washington Post
Aug. 14, 2016: Ukrainian officials reveal the existence of a handwritten ledger suggesting that Manafort had received off-the-books payments from Yanukovych’s political party to the tune of millions of dollars. These payments are ultimately part of criminal charges filed against Manafort in the United States.

Aug. 19, 2016: Manafort is forced out from Trump’s campaign.

Sept. 2016: Burisma’s American lawyer would later claim the Ukrainian probe of the company ended this month.

Nov. 8, 2016: Donald Trump is elected president (with Russian assistance)*[qualifier my own]
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#316169 - 10/01/19 01:02 PM Re: The Trump/Biden/Ukraine thing [Re: logtroll]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42352
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Quote:
May 1: The New York Times publishes a story tying the elder Biden’s pressure campaign in Ukraine to Shokin having investigated Burisma, portraying it as a potential liability in his 2020 campaign.


The The New York Times also helped push the US into war with Iraq in 2003. For a supposed "left-wing" paper, they sure do align themselves with rightwing propaganda. Hmm , mad
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#316170 - 10/01/19 01:54 PM Re: The Trump/Biden/Ukraine thing [Re: pdx rick]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2130
The NYT left?!

Never been a war, coup, fascist right wing gorilla insurgency they haven’t supported for as long as I’ve been alive.

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#316177 - 10/01/19 04:33 PM Re: The Trump/Biden/Ukraine thing [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7067
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
Ukrainian officials reveal the existence of a handwritten ledger suggesting that Manafort had received off-the-books payments from Yanukovych’s political party to the tune of millions of dollars.

Isn't that precisely what Mr Trump wanted? an end to corruption in Ukraine.

Looks good to me.
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#316178 - 10/01/19 06:57 PM Re: The Trump/Biden/Ukraine thing [Re: logtroll]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42352
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

The major problem with all of this is that Trump believes right-wing conspiracy theories which have been debunked. Hmm

Quote:
the White House released a readout of a phone call showing the president pressuring Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to look into a “missing” computer server belonging to Democrats that Trump believes is in Ukraine and contains incriminating information about the origins of 2016 election meddling.

The problem is there is no “missing” physical server; there’s no actual reason to suspect Ukraine would have such a server in the first place; and there’s no evidence Ukraine interfered in the 2016 vote at all.

This idea stems from a conspiracy theory that has circulated in right-wing media for several years and has been thoroughly debunked. Yet Trump believes it all the same — enough that he felt the need to rope a foreign leader into investigating it.

But new reporting this week reveals that this is not the only wacky right-wing internet conspiracy theory that Trump has latched on to and tried to enlist foreign help to investigate.

We now know that a collection of these conspiracy theories has driven Trump to reach out to the governments of Australia, the United Kingdom, and Italy.


For a supposed "stable genius," it appears that Mr. Trump is not very bright individual. coffee
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#316196 - 10/02/19 08:40 PM Re: The Trump/Biden/Ukraine thing [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15048
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pdx rick

The problem is there is no “missing” physical server; there’s no actual reason to suspect Ukraine would have such a server in the first place;


That's due in part to the fact that Donald Trump is computer illiterate, so he apparently thinks that data is somehow "carved into" the server, like it's a piece of granite or something.
The concept of magnetically encoded ones and zeroes on a storage device which can be cloned remotely does not occur to him because he has no understanding of the subject, and when experts try to explain it, he doesn't want to listen to them.

He thinks that a server is like some magical secret amulet, like a holy runestone imbued with "powers", and that to have easy access, one must physically take possession of it, much like taking possession of a magic amulet.

All your base are belong to us!

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#316213 - 10/03/19 04:31 AM Re: The Trump/Biden/Ukraine thing [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7067
Loc: Highlands, Tx
For those on the right ... nothing has been debunked. The facts are fake ... the logic is too logical ... and the conclusions do not comport with their delusions.
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ignorance is the enemy
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#316243 - 10/04/19 03:31 AM Re: The Trump/Biden/Ukraine thing [Re: logtroll]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42352
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


So WaPo is saying that Pence's Top Security guy was on the July 25th phone call (...along with Mike Pompeo) and Pence had to have received a summary of that call for his meeting with the President of Ukraine on September 1, 2019 in Warsaw.

On September 1, 2019, the monies Congress allocated for the Javelin anti-tank missile system was still on hold - because Trump had not authorized the release.

But Pence is calming he was unaware of the quid pro quo of the July 25th phone call - even though he had summary of the call from his top security advisor.

If there is anything Mike Pence does well, is to play dumb. Hmm



Earlier this afternoon 10/03/19, the NY Times reported that a letter was drafted outlining what Ukraine had to do in order to receive the $450M that Congress allocated for the Javelins.

Quote:
The statement would have committed Ukraine to investigating the energy company Burisma Holdings, which had employed Hunter Biden, the former vice president’s younger son. And it would have called for the Ukrainian government to look into what Mr. Trump and his allies believe was interference by Ukrainians in the 2016 election in the United States to benefit Hillary Clinton.

It's unclear if the Ukraine ever received that letter as the Ukraine never released a public statement indicating they would follow conditions set-forth in the letter.

smile
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#316247 - 10/04/19 04:20 AM Re: The Trump/Biden/Ukraine thing [Re: pdx rick]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16228
Loc: Florida
Quote:
If there is anything Mike Pence does well, is to play dumb.

He isn't playing.
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#316248 - 10/04/19 04:26 AM Re: The Trump/Biden/Ukraine thing [Re: pdx rick]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16228
Loc: Florida
Quote:
the Ukraine

As I understand it there is no "The" in Ukraine. The USA or The UK or The United Arab Emirates is cool but Ukraine is just Ukraine.
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