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#317961 - 11/15/19 03:51 AM Re: Revenge of the Human Scum [Re: perotista]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7240
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
our representatives and senators were suppose to represent the people of their district and state first and foremost

wow

let me say that one more time

wow

Originally Posted By: Oath of office of Senate
I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.


consider the oath vis a vis your statement. If that is your most cogent view of the state of American Congressmen, then we are frakked.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

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#317962 - 11/15/19 05:46 AM Re: Revenge of the Human Scum [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43103
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


Republicans are saying that those who are calling-out Trump for his bribery/extortion is over-turning an election. Hmm

We really should be two countries. smile
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#317967 - 11/15/19 03:33 PM Re: Revenge of the Human Scum [Re: pdx rick]
perotista Online   content
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 708
Originally Posted By: pdx rick


Republicans are saying that those who are calling-out Trump for his bribery/extortion is over-turning an election. Hmm

We really should be two countries. smile


It'd be easy enough, take the northeast and west coast, add a couple of island states around the great lakes, you have one country with the rest making up the other. There may be a couple of states to be argued over like Colorado which is a blue state in the mountain states. But the above divide would do.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#317968 - 11/15/19 03:47 PM Re: Revenge of the Human Scum [Re: rporter314]
perotista Online   content
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 708
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Quote:
our representatives and senators were suppose to represent the people of their district and state first and foremost

wow

let me say that one more time

wow

Originally Posted By: Oath of office of Senate
I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.


consider the oath vis a vis your statement. If that is your most cogent view of the state of American Congressmen, then we are frakked.


Consider today our congressmen and senators owe their loyalty to their party and not to the people they supposedly represent. Certainly not to America as a whole. You think Trump has violated the Constitution, you have just about the same number of folks on the other side who says he hasn't. This is in the eye of the beholder type of view or perspective. This brings us right back to the 85% D vs. 85% R.

Fact is politics is always a matter of personal perspectives. Perhaps it's loyalty to party, one will never convince even one of the 85% percenter's to change their minds on Trump. I won't even attempt to.

But I do realize the reality of the situation. A major war between both major parties over Trump. I hope each destroys the other, then perhaps a couple of new political parties will be born that puts all of America's interest ahead of the political party's interest. At least more than just trying to please each's base interest while telling the rest of America to go to Hades in a hand basket.

Of course I'm dreaming, but the flicker of hope hasn't been totally diminished within me.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#317969 - 11/15/19 04:24 PM Re: Revenge of the Human Scum [Re: perotista]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17034
Loc: Florida
Quote:
There's a good reason I say if the democrats nominate someone who is attractive to the independent voter, they'll win in a landslide. If they don't, if they nominate someone who is as disliked as much or more than Trump, ALA Hillary in 2016, another 2016 is certainly possible.


And who in the list of candidates(besides Trump) is as unpopular to independents as Madam Clinton? You, most likely, imagine it is any progressive candidate. Specifically Warren and Sanders. Neither of those two will attract anti-Trump republicans but neither will depress the Democratic turnout either. That's all it's gonna take for a win.

Maybe it won't be a landslide, but it will be enough to flip the senate and defeat Trump. A wave similar to 2018 will be more than sufficient.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#317974 - 11/15/19 06:03 PM Re: Revenge of the Human Scum [Re: Greger]
perotista Online   content
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 708
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
There's a good reason I say if the democrats nominate someone who is attractive to the independent voter, they'll win in a landslide. If they don't, if they nominate someone who is as disliked as much or more than Trump, ALA Hillary in 2016, another 2016 is certainly possible.


And who in the list of candidates(besides Trump) is as unpopular to independents as Madam Clinton? You, most likely, imagine it is any progressive candidate. Specifically Warren and Sanders. Neither of those two will attract anti-Trump republicans but neither will depress the Democratic turnout either. That's all it's gonna take for a win.

Maybe it won't be a landslide, but it will be enough to flip the senate and defeat Trump. A wave similar to 2018 will be more than sufficient.

Perhaps, there's a way to figure out which of the candidates independents would be looked on more favorable than others. But this requires the use of polls which you discard immediately. So then, I can't help you.

Now I'm more interested on how this impeachment process will effect independents for the 2020 election than whether or not Trump is removed or stays. I think if the election were held today, the Democrats lose Alabama, pickup Colorado, Arizona, North Carolina. Maine is another possibility as is Iowa. Then there are the two Georgia seats. If everything breaks right, you could be talking of a pickup of 6, maybe 7 seats. If not, perhaps only 2.

Who the Democrats nominate will have a huge say in that along with how independents view the impeachment process. So whatever I say today is nothing more than an educated guess. Take it with a grain of salt.

What's important to me isn't who wins or loses, it is getting my election forecasts right on another site. I'm not a party animal, although I prefer divided government. I hate lurches to the far left or far right. Only if one party controls both chambers of congress and the presidency can those extreme lurches take place.

What I have found is folks who are for certain candidates don't want to hear anything bad or unfavorable about their candidate. They don't want to hear even using numbers that their candidate may not be the best candidate to defeat Trump or any other opponent. That I have come to expect and am able to live with. All they want to hear is that their candidate will win.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#317975 - 11/15/19 07:11 PM Re: Revenge of the Human Scum [Re: perotista]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17034
Loc: Florida
I don't discard polls, I just don't use them as my primary source of information when predicting the future.

I'm also not dead set on a candidate, I see a possible path for a
progressive candidate to win and I've predicted that she will win. Both in the primaries and against Trump

Quote:
What's important to me isn't who wins or loses, it is getting my election forecasts right


Ditto. Though you seem somewhat reticent to make them until you can be sure you're right.

I have a very specific agenda and it will move forward more quickly if a progressive candidate is elected, but even Trump's re-election will help to move it forward. I consider Biden the biggest impediment to my goals. Biden is also(according to polls) the most likely to win. I'm aware that I might be calling a longshot, but I calls 'em as I sees 'em, not as a thousand random people here or there might see 'em.

Polls are a good reference and I check them now and again to be sure I'm on the right track and so far nothing is indicating that I'm wrong.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#317977 - 11/15/19 07:28 PM Re: Revenge of the Human Scum [Re: Greger]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3443
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Bernie is running as a Socialist, pure and simple. He is not a member of the Democratic party and takes great pride in that one.

"Socialist" is a demonized term no matter how its attached or referenced. We have been over this one to exhaustion. Those of us who, months ago, thought using the term was a flat out mistake and gave the Republicans yet another talking point we flat out right.

The simple fact is that "Socialist" is a reference to a system of government wherein the government takes over all means of production. This includes what gets produced, who is in charge, and who decides virtually everything. Socialists have a tendency to want to run everything under the guise of representing "the workers". In other words they want to control EVERYTHING! This is a historical fact.

Its interesting. Warren, for instance, has 'plans'. Most of these plans are not only going the 'help' but 'help' bigtime and gov will control all these 'plans'. Sorry, that one edges very close to your basic, classic, SOCIALISM!

All that being said I remain a supporter of a lot of things considered to be socialist and many that we have now that also qualify. The problem is the word, not the desire to have citizens banding together to deal with social problems. We do it with police, public schools, fire departments right now and there is little difference in those than healthcare, for instance. There are also a number of countries who provide schooling, including higher education. The difference is that higher education is provided for those who qualify and maintain their grades and, for the most part, behave. China, for instance, has quintupled their PHD's in the last few years.

All of this is true. However, the term "Socialist" offends regardless of attached such as "Democratic Socialist". The simple fact is that "Socialist" is the operative word and it offends. Its just the way it is. Its Politics and people should understand there is a genuine difference between "the way it is" rather than "the way it should be" and it matters. "Socialist" is a really good example of that.

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#317979 - 11/15/19 09:17 PM Re: Revenge of the Human Scum [Re: jgw]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17034
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Bernie is running as a Socialist, pure and simple.


Perhaps you could show me a citation to prove this? Bernie is running for president as a Democrat.

He is running for the Senate as an independent, but he has filed to run for the Democratic nomination as a Democrat.
He is a self described social democrat...which is not the same as a socialist...but he is not a member of the Democratic Socialists of America.

Bernie has caucused with the Democrats for 30 years or so. His bona fides are pretty bona fide. He is and has always been a progressive.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#317980 - 11/15/19 09:27 PM Re: Revenge of the Human Scum [Re: jgw]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17034
Loc: Florida
Quote:
The simple fact is that "Socialist" is a reference to a system of government wherein the government takes over all means of production. This includes what gets produced, who is in charge, and who decides virtually everything. Socialists have a tendency to want to run everything under the guise of representing "the workers". In other words they want to control EVERYTHING! This is a historical fact.


Perhaps you could show me some proof of this "historical fact"? I can show you lots of proof that it's pure bullshite. But I won't. because this is YOUR claim and it's up to you to show some proof for it.

Socialism and capitalism are opposing economic systems, they are not governmental systems. Neither one works very well on its own but when combined they become a powerhouse.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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