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#318109 - 11/20/19 11:47 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: logtroll]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8951
Loc: North San Diego County
It's actually both extortion and bribery. Trump was soliciting a bribe in the form of help with his reelection by getting Zelensky to announce an investigation. The constitution does not say one side of the bribery transaction is impeachable, while the other side is peachy. This case is a little more complicated because of the quid pro quo deal, but just half of that deal is bribery. Trump wanted something illegal and he tried to get it.

Just because he's gotten help from other countries before, does not make it legal. That seems to be a large portion of Trump's legal strategy: Do all his crimes in public view and confess to them in tweets or on TV, so we get desensitized to them. Then when any criminal consequences slowly wind there way through the legal system, claim that it is already "old news". But the statute of limitations on these crimes is not 3 months!

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#318110 - 11/21/19 12:26 AM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42120
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
...And now GOP-ers are expressing concern about blowback effects on Gordon's hotel biz.
Maybe Sondland should have considered the blowback effect on his business when he purchased his diplomatic post for a million dollars.

My friends in Portland are saying this Ukraine inquiry is having a devastating affect on Sondland's hotels. Sondland's home is Portland, OR.

There have been pickets and negative Yelp reviews ever since the beginning of September 2019 when this whistle-blower story broke at Sondland's Portland hotels.

Mrs. Sondland is pissed that her husband's Trump adventure has wrought financial harm to "her" business. smile (It's the husband's business, but she apparently "runs" it and benefits significantly financially - or at least used to benefit financially. laugh )
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#318112 - 11/21/19 01:03 AM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: logtroll]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8951
Loc: North San Diego County
Moral of this story is: Don't pay a lot of money to join in a criminal conspiracy!

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#318117 - 11/21/19 03:14 AM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: rporter314]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17184
I think there is a misperception about what bribery is. See 18 U.S. Code 201.Bribery of public officials and witnesses

Quote:
Whoever -
....
(2)being a public official or person selected to be a public official, directly or indirectly, corruptly demands, seeks, receives, accepts, or agrees to receive or accept anything of value personally or for any other person or entity, in return for:
(A)being influenced in the performance of any official act;
(B)being influenced to commit or aid in committing, or to collude in, or allow, any fraud, or make opportunity for the commission of any fraud, on the United States; or
(C)being induced to do or omit to do any act in violation of the official duty of such official or person;


Noting, of course, that the framers intended the term far more broadly, nonetheless all the elements are present: Zelensky said, "We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins [anti-tank missiles] from the United States for defense purposes."

"I would like you to do us a favor though..."

The "ask" alone is explicitly bribery. Whoever "seeks"; a "thing of value"; "in return for; "being influenced in the performance of any official act".

I would like... (seek)
Pivotally it was "of value" because he asked for it
And he held up appropriated funds in violation of statute to enforce the "get"

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#318119 - 11/21/19 03:54 AM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42120
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
I think there is a misperception about what bribery is. See 18 U.S. Code 201.Bribery of public officials and witnesses
And he held up appropriated funds in violation of statute to enforce the "get"

Well...you know...peanut gallery. coffee
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#318124 - 11/21/19 03:55 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: logtroll]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17184
A thought struck me today. As has been mentioned, some of us participate on other forums in addition to the Rant. My observation is that analysis on this site, by nearly every poster, is far more in-depth than on other sites. Part of that, I think, is the result of our enforced politeness. But, more significantly, I think we Ranters just cogitate more. We also hold each other to a higher standard - we don't put up with one-liners and genetic put downs, and demand sources. As a result, I think, the dreck-to-thoughtful ratio is pretty low.

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#318125 - 11/21/19 04:16 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: logtroll]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6975
Loc: Highlands, Tx
A thought just crossed my 3-cylinder brain. I wonder if Adv Bolton were to announce, just announce, he would testify. Does he have enough information to convict a number of people and if so could that lead to Mr Trump resigning???
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#318126 - 11/21/19 06:53 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: logtroll]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17184
What a wonderful idea! I've been listening this morning. Dr. Hill is absolutely destroying every GOP talking point.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#318127 - 11/21/19 09:03 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: logtroll]
Ujest Shurly Online   sleepy
journeyman

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 503
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
Revenge of the Immigrants?

eek2
_________________________
MAGA, impeach Trump.

Vote 2020

Life is like a PB&J sandwich. The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

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#318128 - 11/21/19 09:07 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ujest Shurly Online   sleepy
journeyman

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 503
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
... I think we Ranters just cogitate more. ...the dreck-to-thoughtful ratio is pretty low.


WoW, forced to the dictionary twice in one post.

:applaud: :applaud:
_________________________
MAGA, impeach Trump.

Vote 2020

Life is like a PB&J sandwich. The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

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