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#318195 - 11/22/19 08:19 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: logtroll]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8951
Loc: North San Diego County
I like how she started her testimony: "No BS conspiracy questions that benefit Russia, please." She really shut that down. I think she was signalling Republicans on the committee that she would humiliate them if they followed their scripts.

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#318202 - 11/23/19 12:00 AM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: pondering_it_all]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6975
Loc: Highlands, Tx
She really didn't.

They almost to a person all claimed they signed a report which concluded the Russians were the culprits. .... O and then they proceeded with their Ukraine conspiracy.

I dunno ... stupid ... maybe oblivious of reality ... but in any event she did not stop them from their delusion. Ukraine and their op-ed's were the main source of meddling in the 2016.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#318230 - 11/24/19 01:37 AM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: rporter314]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42120
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: rporter314
here's the problem i have with Amb Bolton. Despite the fact I have disagreed with almost all if not all of his foreign policy ideas, I have always thought he was a person of integrity and truly (yep truly) believed in American patriotism. Some have tossed around the idea he is holding out to confess for a book deal. I think that only elicits the most craven instincts in those people and an equal mischaracterization of who Amb Bolton is. While it did cross my mind, I could not convince myself that was his real motivation.

Conservatives have no core values that can't be sacrificed in the name of political expedience or profit. Hmm
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#318235 - 11/24/19 02:29 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: logtroll]
perotista Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 233
For only those interested. Public response to impeachment hearings. Comparing Trumpís approval ratings, percentage of those who want Trump impeached and removed along with those who donít.

Impeachment hearings began on 13 Nov 2019 vs. 24 Nov 2019

Trumpís approval 13 Nov 43.9%, 24 Nov 44.3%

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html


13 Nov Democrats for impeachment and removal 82%, 24 Nov Democrats for impeachment and removal 87%.
13 Nov Republicans for impeachment and removal 12%, 24 Nov Republicans for impeachment and removal 9%.
13 Nov Independents for impeachment and removal 38%, 24 Nov Independents for impeachment and removal 41%.
13 Nov Democrats against impeachment and removal 6%, 24 Nov Democrats against impeachment and removal 8%.
13 Nov Republicans against impeachment and removal 80%, 24 Nov Republicans against impeachment and removal 87%.
13 Nov Independents against impeachment and removal 39%, 24 Nov Independents against impeachment and removal 47%.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls...trump-6957.html

10 days after the start of the hearings, we finally see a bit of movement. Impeachment and removal have gained 5 points among Democrats and 3 points among independents. Although support for impeachment and removal has dropped 3 points among Republicans. The biggest rise was independents against impeachment and removal, an 8-point rise, Republicans against impeachment and removal have risen 7 points. It seems after 10 days of hearings, Republicans and Democrats have harden their view on this. But I think it is more important to keep tabs on independents, the less to non-partisan group, probably most not in either the pro or anti Trump camps. On 13 Nov you had 38% for impeachment and removal, 39% against. 24 Nov shows 41% of independents for impeachment and removal, 47% against impeachment and removal.

Draw your own conclusions. The numbers I find fascinating are the answers to this question. Question 7. Watched public hearings - Did you watch any part of the of public impeachment hearings? Democrats 52% yes, 48% no, Republicans 44% yes, 56% no. Independents, the less to non-partisan's, the group of voters most likely to change their minds. 31% yes, 69% no. Hard to change someone's mind when they're not watching.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/u9tu99dui5/econTabReport.pdf
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It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#318239 - 11/24/19 05:20 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: perotista]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 15781
Loc: Florida
I'm an independent, I'm against impeachment because it will fail and is nothing but political theater. I didn't watch the proceedings and my mind will not be changed. It will likely do Trump more good than harm when the 2020 elections roll around.

Donald Trump should be impeached and removed from office. But the attempt appears doomed to failure. The crimes are not high enough and the misdemeanors too minor in the eyes of Republicans.
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"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."ó Oscar Wilde

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#318241 - 11/24/19 05:40 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: Greger]
chunkstyle Offline
member

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1935
Donít forget the stunning hypocrisy

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#318245 - 11/24/19 06:25 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: Greger]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42120
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Greger
I'm an independent, I'm against impeachment because it will fail...

You mean removal will fail. Impeachment will be successful and Trump will have to wear the Scarlet "I" on his shirts for the rest of his presidency.


Originally Posted By: Greger
Donald Trump should be impeached and removed from office.mes are not high enough and the misdemeanors too minor in the eyes of Republicans.

Agreed. Remove the corrupt conman from Office.

smile

Originally Posted By: Greger
The crimes are not high enough and the misdemeanors too minor in the eyes of Republicans.

"...not high enough..."

Even a smidgen is enough for removal, if you're a Founding Father purist. Hmm
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#318246 - 11/24/19 06:26 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: Greger]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6975
Loc: Highlands, Tx
and please allow me to refute ... no no .... confute your statements.

Quote:
I'm against impeachment because it will fail and is nothing but political theater
While it may devolve into some kind of surreal theater, one can not be against may/will fail. Should one accept that as any principle for living, we would still be living in caves.

Regardless of the outcome in the Senate, we the people have an obligation to ensure a government accountable to the people. Abusing power the people have given to elected officials should be met with every tool available to the people to reject it. Allowing this or any elected official to "get away" with abusing their power will ensure we will live under nothing but corrupt government forever or until good men step up and do what is right.

Quote:
It will likely do Trump more good than harm when the 2020 elections roll around
And it still does not matter. Allow this official to get away with abuse and guess whata happens next? You better believe it will embolden him to do the unthinkable. In essence you will have given him a license to unleash the narcissistic delusions he is master of the universe.

Quote:
The crimes are not high enough and the misdemeanors too minor in the eyes of Republicans
And in the eyes of all criminals their crimes do not amount to anything much less an indictment. As for Republicans, there is no crime which change their support for this occupant of the WH. He could shoot you and guess what, your life does not matter to the Republicans. Principles are far more important than fearing what Republicans believe.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#318247 - 11/24/19 07:19 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: logtroll]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2638
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
The decision on mcgahn testifying is about to arrive. Hopefully he will be forced to testify. I am also hoping that the decision is wider than that (expert wishful thinking thought)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-t...e-idUSKBN1XY093

Anyway, if he does it just may bring another bunch of stuff to the front. If the decision is actually wider then BINGO! We will be truly off and running (assuming the Dems will be willing to have at the close advisors of our dear leader).

In theory this will happen tomorrow!!!!!!!!!

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#318250 - 11/24/19 08:33 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: logtroll]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14608
Loc: Whittier, California
Parnas was represented by Giuliani's lawyer, John Dowd.
That made Parnas part of Trump's mutual mobster CYA, meaning they all share information among themselves and the others, Konstantin Kilimnik, Paul Manafort, Roger Stone, and even Devin Nunes...or so Parnas THOUGHT.

Parnas has fired Dowd, because apparently he was very upset that Trump said he didn't know him. No honor among crooks!
So he flipped on Trump.

Giuliani henchman fires former Trump lawyer and agrees to comply with impeachment inquiry after snub

Personally I can't imagine he had any other options.
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The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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