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#318355 - 11/27/19 07:46 PM All or Nothing OR My Way or the Highway
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2888
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
When the founders setup the nation they also setup a system wherein nobody gets everything they want but everybody gets a bit of what they want. That's the way it was for many years. Then the Republicans spawned Gingrich. He had one simple plan - do not give an inch on anything and the wimps on the left will eventually come around.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/11/newt-gingrich-says-youre-welcome/570832/

He was right! His plan was simple. Don't give an inch and doing anything you can to win, no matter what, was the other half. The Republicans embraced this, and over the years have actually refined it. Now there are indications that the Democrats are either thinking of, or actually joining up with the Republican methodology. The problem is that, now, we have a congress which, basically, cannot legislate in any meaningful way. We currently have a situation wherein the House can pass over 300 pieces of legislation and the Senate 50. This is, flat out, crazy. What makes it even worse is that the Senate is simply refusing to even allow anybody in the senate to vote on anything that the house sends them.

So, the plan to have two parties, one for the Left, one for the Right to, basically, run the nation obviously was the plan. The secret to success was that both parties would respect the other and they would both be willing to sit down and work out stuff that both sides could live with. Nobody gets it all but everybody gets something. This worked for a very long time. If we are to survive then them that would govern is going to have to make some serious decision in how to restore what was. The start would be to setup a congressional system of respect for every other member which would include how they speak about, and to, one another. Then throw in a rule which forces both sides to sit with one another instead of each group being isolated from the other. I am sure that there is more but, I think, that would be a good start.

I am sure that there are, sometimes, issues wherein both sides are in agreement, there are no arguments. Unfortunately this is a rare thing in most instances. I think my point is that its really best when there are no members determined to get what they want no matter what. When that does happen then congress should vote to label whatever as not likely to to stubborn and then advertise it so everybody knows that the elected class is unable to reach any kind of an agreement whatsoever.

There, that's it, my half assed solution................


Edited by jgw (11/27/19 07:58 PM)

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#318356 - 11/27/19 07:53 PM Re: All or Nothing OR My Way or the Highway [Re: jgw]
Hamish Howl Offline
newbie

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 385
Loc: Tucson, AZ
McConnell has of course mastered this.

He, rather than Trump, is the reason I don't think we should give the GOP a damn thing.
_________________________
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#318357 - 11/27/19 07:59 PM Re: All or Nothing OR My Way or the Highway [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2888
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Yah, that will work? Just refuse to do a damn thing. Waaaay better than what we have now? Hmmmmmm?

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#318358 - 11/27/19 08:26 PM Re: All or Nothing OR My Way or the Highway [Re: Hamish Howl]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16253
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Hamish Howl
McConnell has of course mastered this.

He, rather than Trump, is the reason I don't think we should give the GOP a damn thing.


We need to work our way back to a position where there can be compromise. But yeah...no. Now is not the time to give in to them. McConnell is 77 years old, he's not gonna be around much longer. In fact, a lot of these folks aren't going to be around much longer. In both parties.
The partisan logjam will then begin to break up a bit.
When the Boomers are gone.
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#318359 - 11/27/19 10:20 PM Re: All or Nothing OR My Way or the Highway [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9283
Loc: North San Diego County
I doubt turnover will offer a solution: Each Party has younger members with the same attitude. What we need are different attitudes. Unfortunately, primaries weed out all the moderates, so we end up with a general election consisting of extremes. Sooner or later the voters will get tired of a Congress that can't do anything because of partisan gridlock.

This is mostly happening on the Republican side because they are desperate to retain some power in the face of changing demographics. But the future always is on the side of progress. It's inherent: Progressive implies the future and conservative implies the past. Since time only runs in one direction (according to human perceptions), there can only be one outcome.

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#318375 - 11/28/19 04:20 AM Re: All or Nothing OR My Way or the Highway [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16253
Loc: Florida
The turnover will reflect the different attitudes of Millenials. They are not the same as boomers and Xers. Boomers are still fighting about things that Millenials don't even remember. Demographics are changing with the generations too.
Did we ever see zebra couples when we were young? They're a dime a dozen these days and mixed race kids are too. Racism is weakening among the younger set, not going away by any means but weakening. Homosexuality is normal in most places now, not even frowned upon by most. Just a part of life, as it should be.

There are changes coming.


Edited by Greger (11/28/19 04:26 AM)
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#318380 - 11/28/19 10:37 AM Re: All or Nothing OR My Way or the Highway [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2138
And i’ll, as usual, point out that there is not much ‘left’ in the Democratic Party today. There were times when the left and liberals were fellow travelers but a couple of ‘purges’ and red baiting by republicans have left the Democrats with very little of what I understand as the left.

Having moved to the center right has made it more difficult for Democrats to distinguish themselves from the other party on economic and material concerns.

Perhaps if they would form common cause with progressives and leftists again they would recreate some of their past legislative successes. All signs point to an entrenchment of hostility towards leftists in the upcoming election, leaving the country in an untenable political situation.
You can only wonder where it will go from here.


Edited by chunkstyle (11/28/19 10:39 AM)

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#318445 - 11/29/19 06:33 PM Re: All or Nothing OR My Way or the Highway [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16253
Loc: Florida
Quote:
not much ‘left’ in the Democratic Party today.


There is absolutely no 'left' at all within The Democratic Party, the DNC as it were. Corporatists all, neo-liberals, anathema to all things good, eaters of children, defilers of temples.

But among small-d-democrats there is a lot of 'left' and it is trending farther that way all the time.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#318516 - 12/01/19 10:05 PM Re: All or Nothing OR My Way or the Highway [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9283
Loc: North San Diego County
That's exactly why we need a unity ticket: We have two wings in the greater party, and we need both of them to beat Trump. I don't see Warren or Sanders asking Biden to be VP, but Biden could ask either of them. We need to stop this ego-driven thing of bringing a nobody as VP.

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#318518 - 12/01/19 11:09 PM Re: All or Nothing OR My Way or the Highway [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2888
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Its unfortunate. The Republicans have demonstrated, time after time, that one winning strategy is to 1)tell big lies, keep on telling them until they become fact. This is relatively easy, right now, for instance, there is the anti-impeach Republicans who are whining about how the Democrats won't let the Republicans put up their own witnesses. This is, basically, asking a police investigation team to allow all those likely to be the criminals to take part in, and try to control their investigation! This has now been going on for months yet I have yet to hear a single Democrat even mention this little fact. Instead they remain silent so that the Republicans can continue to lie and garner support at the same time!

What we really need is not so much unity but, rather, a functional 2 party system. We seem to have, instead, are two parties not only going their own ways but one side successfully inventing an entirely new reality, sticking to their talking points, lying their heads off, and being allowed, by the Democratic party to pull it all off whilst sticking to their "my way or the highway" mode. All this whilst the Democrats continues to beat each other black and blue, making sure that everybody is pure, going back to their days in high school, and anybody who might disagree either ignored or forced hide away in shame.

There is some indication, however, that the Dems will, very occasionally, mention that they have sent over 300 bills to the senate where they lay dormant. It would seem that all the blame falls on the shoulders of Moscow Mitch rather than the Republicans as a whole. That one too seems strange. If the Republicans of the senate wanted him gone he would be gone. That being the case why in the world have the Dems decided to let, basically, all Republicans but Moscow Mitch skate from this strange set of odd. In other words I think that they should forget Mitch who, really, just reflects the will of his fellow senators and start going after them ALL!

Is it any wonder that just about everybody agrees that Trump will be VERY tough to beat and, right now, its unlikely the Dems can win unless they are a LOT more united than they are now.

<sigh>

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