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#318808 - 12/10/19 12:47 AM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: logtroll]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15359
Loc: Whittier, California
Yesterday another article about Rudy Giuliani appeared, one with a familiar story.
William Barr apparently repeated his warning to Trump that Rudy Giuliani is a liability.

Apparently he's becoming even more of one, now that he's expanding his "services" to foreign officials.

Quote:
In several conversations in recent months, Attorney General William P. Barr has counseled Trump in general terms that Giuliani has become a liability and a problem for the administration, according to multiple people familiar with the conversations.


When do you think Trump will throw him under the bus?
I think before Christmas.
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#318811 - 12/10/19 05:09 AM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: logtroll]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15359
Loc: Whittier, California
It is clear that as much as a third of this nation is incredibly desirous of extreme Right wing authoritarianism.
Part of that 1/3 is likely yearning for Right wing authoritarian theocracy.
The thing is, it is also possible to seduce a third of our country to yearn for ultra-Left authoritarianism, but that's what triggered the October Revolution of 1917, and that's what triggered the 26th of July Movement revolution in Cuba, although that revolution was a backlash against another authoritarian dictatorship on the extreme Right.

Not all revolutions that culminate in authoritarian dictatorship even start out that way, but it is very important to gauge the will of the people in the runup to these catastrophic fractures in leadership and government, because those which do start out that way yell the loudest about subjects like "freedom" or "liberty", and they wax poetic in equal measure about constitutions and leaders who were "chosen by God", and they are quick to react to aspects of the democratic process which might ensnare corrupt leadership, because they are indoctrinated to believe that failure to kow-tow 100% to their authority figures automatically labels one a dehumanized enemy who deserves no "democratic rights", rights which, in true democratic fashion would never consist of loyalty oaths at all costs to anyone, but rather, loyalty or respect to and for established constitutional wisdom and law.

That is the weathervane that tells us when we are deviating far afield of ethics, lawfulness and the very oath taken when in public service.
You cannot quite trust a weathervane to be spinning true when one group is forcing it to spin by shooting at it.
Eventually, if they are allowed to continue apace, they'll lob a rocket at it.

And tonight, that rocket is looking more and more Russian by the minute.
_________________________
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#318817 - 12/10/19 05:13 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2339
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
It is clear that as much as a third of this nation is incredibly desirous of extreme Right wing authoritarianism.
Part of that 1/3 is likely yearning for Right wing authoritarian theocracy.
The thing is, it is also possible to seduce a third of our country to yearn for ultra-Left authoritarianism, but that's what triggered the October Revolution of 1917, and that's what triggered the 26th of July Movement revolution in Cuba, although that revolution was a backlash against another authoritarian dictatorship on the extreme Right.

Not all revolutions that culminate in authoritarian dictatorship even start out that way, but it is very important to gauge the will of the people in the runup to these catastrophic fractures in leadership and government, because those which do start out that way yell the loudest about subjects like "freedom" or "liberty", and they wax poetic in equal measure about constitutions and leaders who were "chosen by God", and they are quick to react to aspects of the democratic process which might ensnare corrupt leadership, because they are indoctrinated to believe that failure to kow-tow 100% to their authority figures automatically labels one a dehumanized enemy who deserves no "democratic rights", rights which, in true democratic fashion would never consist of loyalty oaths at all costs to anyone, but rather, loyalty or respect to and for established constitutional wisdom and law.

That is the weathervane that tells us when we are deviating far afield of ethics, lawfulness and the very oath taken when in public service.
You cannot quite trust a weathervane to be spinning true when one group is forcing it to spin by shooting at it.
Eventually, if they are allowed to continue apace, they'll lob a rocket at it.

And tonight, that rocket is looking more and more Russian by the minute.


Couldn't disagree more on several points.

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#318823 - 12/10/19 06:28 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: logtroll]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3028
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Every now and then I refer to the 'media', as do others. The Simple fact is that the 'media' defined and then gave Trump, literally, billions of dollars worth of exposure because, as one of the heads of a tv network said; "Trump is a real money maker!". He humored, he ran his mouth, people were entertained and that was enough. The entire media jumped on that bandwagon and that is how we got Trump, our Dear Leader and genuine Jackass. Basically media pretty much controls our entire society. Fox consistency engenders the outrage of the left but kinda sticks to its guns. I stopped watching them several years ago but, I am told, their actual news remains the actual news and its really the talking heads of Fox that are the villains. I have no idea if that is true but accept it as fact as I don't watch so I have nothing to base it on and don't really car. The simple fact, however, is that Fox is, pretty much, out on the right (referring to networks, not locals which is yet another bag is 'tricks') whilst most of the rest are leaning left. This would mean that the vast majority are lefties (most claiming to be in the middle). I have no idea if this means anything at all but it is, I suspect, something to consider?

Right now the media continues to tell us what is important, what is truth, what to think, how to think, etc. Since we are, I think, an incredibly lazy population, not exactly given to critical thinking, we also seem to go along with whatever news source we are currently addicted to. I tend, for instance, to watch, local, cnn and msnbc (and The Onion). For some reason I don't watch much news on abc, cbs, etc. (but my wife does). Neither my wife, nor myself, are exactly dedicated Godites but it also means that I am not being pitched by somebody who assures me that their mouth speaks the word of the Lord and I am also not being threatened with fire and brimstone with regularity. I am also sure that what I do watch leans to the left, and I don't care, but am fully aware that they are pitching - ALL THE TIME! the simple fact is that if we get our news from the TV we are being hustled - ALL THE TIME! its probably best to know who is pushing our buttons?

My wife, incidentally, is more of a Democrat than I (she is also a 'joiner', which I am not). My suspicion is that is because she actually worked for them for several years (paid employee) in both Seattle and Washington, DC. This also means that she does not take criticism of Democrats with grace.

Just saying...........

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#318827 - 12/10/19 06:46 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16448
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Part of that 1/3 is likely yearning for Right wing authoritarian theocracy.
The thing is, it is also possible to seduce a third of our country to yearn for ultra-Left authoritarianism, but that's what triggered the October Revolution of 1917, and that's what triggered the 26th of July Movement revolution in Cuba, although that revolution was a backlash against another authoritarian dictatorship on the extreme Right.


I'm going to argue that once the ultra left becomes authoritarian it is no longer the party of movement. It becomes the party of order.

Fidel never took off the uniform. Never ceded power to the people but usurped it for a privileged few. This seems to be where "SOCIALISM" Usually seems to fail. It's the point where a powerful individual tries to force Marxian theory into existence through strict state policing and government controls while he and his cronies loot the treasury.

The point where the horseshoe bends back on itself.
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#318829 - 12/10/19 07:06 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: jgw]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9973
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: jgw
"Trump is a real money maker!". He humored, he ran his mouth, people were entertained and that was enough.

I agree with the concept but would like to find a different word than "entertained".

Trump draws people to look at him - for some because they like him, some because he is outrageous, for many others because he is dangerous. Either way, we look, and advertisers put ads where people are looking. And they pay the "media" to run those ads, and the "media" exists to make money. Trump understands this and has no ethics or morality about it.

Human nature can be pretty ugly and stupid. But, as a famous mob boss used to say, "Whatta ya gonna do?"

_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#318831 - 12/10/19 07:26 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: Greger]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2339
If it’s communism, gaining the political thru forceful revolution, name me any country that wasn’t immediately attacked by capitalist countries, economically and/or militarily?
It doesn’t seem fair to say socialism seems to fail as individuals become authoritarian and try to force Marxist theory.
The most powerful countries in the world have always attacked socialist countries at inception with few exceptions. What kind of reactionary politics might that produce in those countries being attacked?
These characterizations over socialism’s failures always happen in a vacuum of aggressive, belligerent foreign hostility and its illiberal, undemocratic role.

Chile
Iran
Bolivia
Columbia
Cuba
Russia
Korea
Vietnam
Etc


Edited by chunkstyle (12/10/19 07:27 PM)

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#318833 - 12/10/19 09:13 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15359
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle

It doesn’t seem fair to say socialism seems to fail as individuals become authoritarian and try to force Marxist theory.


I think he was saying "IF" they become authoritarian.
And even so...
Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, etc...are they authoritarian?
Hardly.
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

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#318836 - 12/10/19 10:49 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2339
I got the 'if'.

I'll try it this way.

Have you noticed the coincidence of authoritarianism adopting marxist leaders have with powerful enemies openly trying to undermine their governments and societies?

I'll also add that many don't see marxist authoritarianism as a thing. Simply authoritarianism growing out of a failed state.

Finland, Norway Sweden etc, all have socialist political parties. They also have rightwing parties.

The US has interfered with some left wing political parties in Europe.

Just as they did here. You don't see any do you?


Edited by chunkstyle (12/10/19 10:50 PM)

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#318838 - 12/10/19 11:08 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: chunkstyle]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15359
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
I got the 'if'.

I'll try it this way.

Have you noticed the coincidence of authoritarianism adopting marxist leaders have with powerful enemies openly trying to undermine their governments and societies?

I'll also add that many don't see marxist authoritarianism as a thing. Simply authoritarianism growing out of a failed state.

Finland, Norway Sweden etc, all have socialist political parties. They also have rightwing parties.

The US has interfered with some left wing political parties in Europe.

Just as they did here. You don't see any do you?


Wow, so now I'm claiming SEE NO EVIL?
Why can't you just let me speak for myself?

Of course the US is tampering with the Left, and of course the DNC establishment welcomes that with open arms. Never said they didn't.
Yes, of course there's more than a coincidence of authoritarianism adopting marxist leaders and the relationship those leaders have with powerful enemies (like the American Right, and to some extent, the Democratic Party establishment) openly trying to undermine their governments and societies.

But I guess I'll just let you speak for me...again.
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

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