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#317790 - 11/06/19 05:52 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: rporter314]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 865
You can either face facts or not. Gallup had only 7% of Republicans favoring impeachment this poll has 10% in favor, 80% against. Democrats 82% favor impeachment, 7% do not. Question 33

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/zgaz948hzw/econTabReport.pdf

Trump has an 86% favorable among Republicans, 12% unfavorable, question 56A. Among democrats 8% favorable, 90% unfavorable, question 56A. Notice the ultra high partisanship when it comes to Trump.

84% of all Republicans want Trump to run for reelection, 10% do not. Question 74.

86% of all Republicans say they'll vote for Trump in 2020, 5% say they'll vote for the Democrat. Question 52. Compare that to the actual Republican vote in 2016 where 88% of Republicans voted for Trump, 8% for Clinton, 4% third party.

79% of republicans say the impeachment proceedings has been unfair vs. only 8% who say it has been. 80% of democrats say the proceedings have been fair, 7% unfair. Question 35.

Now this poll didn't ask about impeachment being a political vendetta, but you can rest assured most Republicans are squarely behind Trump.

The only conclusion I can come to, your real republicans amount to around 10% of all those who call themselves Republicans. Or is it to be a real republican, one must favor impeaching Trump? No, what you see here is the polarization the two major parties have caused with their hyper, ulta partisanship. Perhaps Trump needs to be removed for cause, maybe not. I'm not arguing that. What I'm saying is that for most Republicans they view this impeachment as a very partisan political vendetta against Trump, democrats taking revenge only because he beat Hillary Clinton.

How else would one interpret the numbers?
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#317791 - 11/06/19 06:07 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: perotista]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43330
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: perotista
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: perotista
Is it any wonder that those in neither the pro or anti Trump camps tend to view this as a battle between the two major parties? A partisan battle at that. On average independents are split on the subject. Averaging 35% for, 35% against, 30% unsure, undecided or plain don't care.

What happened to the Republican party - they used to be the "Law & Order" party. Now, if their politicians commit crimes, "everybody" does it.

Hmm



That's the bone of contention. Most Republicans view this impeachment process as a partisan political vendetta against Trump for winning an election. In their view, Trump has done nothing wrong. The Democrats view it as a search for justice and the truth. To get rid of a president who has committed numerous crimes.

In today's polarized and ultra high partisan world of our politics, it isn't surprising to me that the two parties view this completely opposite. I don't know how old you are, but I remember a much friendlier time between parties. A time when each party had their conservative and liberal wings. Of course over time each party discarded the wing they didn't want and now both parties are in the process of getting rid of their moderates. What's left is the hard core on each side of the aisle. Of course this has taken 50 years to accomplish.

I think when this first started to go overboard was the impeachment of Bill Clinton and the introduction of the Hastert rule. Since then polarization and partisanship has continued to increase by leaps and bounds. Cooperation between parties, the willingness to compromise went out the window as the parties became more and more partisan. I think this is the reason why independents, call them swing voters has increased from 30% in 2006 to 43% of the electorate today as the two major parties continue to shrink. Most Americans want the two parties to work together. They're not doing that which is why government now has replaced all other issues as the number on problem facing this nation.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/220265/americans-favor-compromise-things-done-washington.aspx


https://news.gallup.com/poll/267581/ment...ign=syndication

Your lengthy post did not address why Republicans are choosing to ignore the fact that the POTUS held funds up for military aid, approved by Congress in February 2019, until the Ukrainian government made a public announcement, preferably on CNN, that it was investigating Joe and Hunter Biden - and then, only released the funds on September 11, 2019 when it became public that the POTUS was holding-up the funding. This is the very definition of a quid pro quo and/or extortion.

This reminds me so much of how the TParty protested the deficit under a Democrat President, but when the deficit is even higher under a Republican president, nary a word is said.

It appears that moral, ethical, and financial concerns is an expediency for Republicans, but a major, breathless, hyperventilating concern, when Democrats do it.

Hmm
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#317792 - 11/06/19 06:40 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: perotista]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7281
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
How else would one interpret the numbers?

Did you notice I began the last post with .... The Base.

Yes The Base is the one most critical variable to consider. I have heard The Base through my neighborhood local. He is their voice. He is their "god". and bigotry is alive and well in my neighborhood.

Now if I were a "Republican" candidate in my area, I would have to acquiesce to The Base and not cross them or suffer being primaried by some really outright bigot, who has pledged fealty to Mr Trump. I for a long time pooh poohed this idea the base was that powerful but have been convinced it is a valid premise. You may not agree but then you don't live in my neighborhood. And I would suggest my neighborhood is like many in the South. It is just a fact of life.

And that is how else I would interpret the numbers.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

Top
#317794 - 11/06/19 08:57 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: rporter314]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17303
Loc: Florida
Quote:
in the South. It is just a fact of life.


Ayup. I keep my head low and my mouth shut.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#317797 - 11/06/19 10:32 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: pdx rick]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 865
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: perotista
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: perotista
Is it any wonder that those in neither the pro or anti Trump camps tend to view this as a battle between the two major parties? A partisan battle at that. On average independents are split on the subject. Averaging 35% for, 35% against, 30% unsure, undecided or plain don't care.

What happened to the Republican party - they used to be the "Law & Order" party. Now, if their politicians commit crimes, "everybody" does it.

Hmm



That's the bone of contention. Most Republicans view this impeachment process as a partisan political vendetta against Trump for winning an election. In their view, Trump has done nothing wrong. The Democrats view it as a search for justice and the truth. To get rid of a president who has committed numerous crimes.

In today's polarized and ultra high partisan world of our politics, it isn't surprising to me that the two parties view this completely opposite. I don't know how old you are, but I remember a much friendlier time between parties. A time when each party had their conservative and liberal wings. Of course over time each party discarded the wing they didn't want and now both parties are in the process of getting rid of their moderates. What's left is the hard core on each side of the aisle. Of course this has taken 50 years to accomplish.

I think when this first started to go overboard was the impeachment of Bill Clinton and the introduction of the Hastert rule. Since then polarization and partisanship has continued to increase by leaps and bounds. Cooperation between parties, the willingness to compromise went out the window as the parties became more and more partisan. I think this is the reason why independents, call them swing voters has increased from 30% in 2006 to 43% of the electorate today as the two major parties continue to shrink. Most Americans want the two parties to work together. They're not doing that which is why government now has replaced all other issues as the number on problem facing this nation.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/220265/americans-favor-compromise-things-done-washington.aspx


https://news.gallup.com/poll/267581/ment...ign=syndication

Your lengthy post did not address why Republicans are choosing to ignore the fact that the POTUS held funds up for military aid, approved by Congress in February 2019, until the Ukrainian government made a public announcement, preferably on CNN, that it was investigating Joe and Hunter Biden - and then, only released the funds on September 11, 2019 when it became public that the POTUS was holding-up the funding. This is the very definition of a quid pro quo and/or extortion.

This reminds me so much of how the TParty protested the deficit under a Democrat President, but when the deficit is even higher under a Republican president, nary a word is said.

It appears that moral, ethical, and financial concerns is an expediency for Republicans, but a major, breathless, hyperventilating concern, when Democrats do it.

Hmm


Basically, what you mentioned in my opinion is irrelevant to them. All part of a Democratic Party scheme to bring down Trump. Republicans for the most have seen in their mind the Democrats taking up the gun to destroy Trump since the day after the election. Whatever the democrats say or do in relation to Trump is going to fall on deaf ears.

You don't want to go to the national debt or shall I say raising the debt ceiling. Under G.W. Bush almost all Democrats voted to not to raise the debt ceiling, almost all Republicans voted to raise it. Change presidents, Obama, now almost all democrats are voting to raise the debt ceiling, almost all Republicans are voting against it. I'm using the debt ceiling because I have figures on that. How the senate voted.

BUSH THE 2ND TENURE
Year Democrats for Democrats against Republicans for Republicans against
2003 3 45 50 1
2004 2 46 50 1
2006 0 44 52 3 *

*It is interest to note in 2006 President Obama voted against raising the debt ceiling and made a speech stating it was unpatriotic to do so.
OBAMA PRESIDENCY
2009 59 0 1 40
2010 60 0 0 40
2012 52 3 1 45
2013 54 0 18 27

When it comes to the debt, deficit, debt ceiling etc. neither party is worth a plug nickle.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

Top
#317798 - 11/06/19 10:37 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: rporter314]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 865
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Quote:
How else would one interpret the numbers?

Did you notice I began the last post with .... The Base.

Yes The Base is the one most critical variable to consider. I have heard The Base through my neighborhood local. He is their voice. He is their "god". and bigotry is alive and well in my neighborhood.

Now if I were a "Republican" candidate in my area, I would have to acquiesce to The Base and not cross them or suffer being primaried by some really outright bigot, who has pledged fealty to Mr Trump. I for a long time pooh poohed this idea the base was that powerful but have been convinced it is a valid premise. You may not agree but then you don't live in my neighborhood. And I would suggest my neighborhood is like many in the South. It is just a fact of life.

And that is how else I would interpret the numbers.


That's one interpretation. I was using the numbers to show how and why most Republicans think impeachment is a very partisan political vendetta.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

Top
#317799 - 11/06/19 11:35 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: perotista]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7281
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
I was using the numbers to show how and why most Republicans think impeachment is a very partisan political vendetta
I think you meant to say how and why they rationalize their support for Mr Trump in light of the facts which are obvious to any competent reader of the "transcript" as well as all the witnesses who have testified QPQ was their analysis of the facts on the ground in real time.

Or to put it another way ... Mr Trump could shoot someone i.e. hold up military defense aid to a country fighting a political enemy QPQ dirt on the Bidens for personal political advantage, etc and they would continue to support him. Now, the real question is why, not whether there is some fictitious partisan vendetta.

My answer provides greater insight into the real why.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

Top
#317800 - 11/06/19 11:38 PM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: perotista]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7281
Loc: Highlands, Tx
This analysis could be meaningful if everything is equal. Unfortunately it is not.

When Pres Bush assumed office there was not a raging contraction in the the economy vis a vis when Pres Obama etc etc.

While it is probably true and valid there is a whole lot of hypocrisy going around, a little more care should be taken when using blanket statements about debt, deficits, etc
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

Top
#317802 - 11/07/19 01:55 AM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: perotista]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 43330
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: perotista
I was using the numbers to show how and why most Republicans think impeachment is a very partisan political vendetta.

Perhaps in general, but not in this case. The evidence and the witnesses validate that there was a quid pro quo aka extortion carried-out by the POTUS, Donald J Trump.
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#317803 - 11/07/19 02:44 AM Re: The Impeachment of Donald trump [Re: rporter314]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 865
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Quote:
I was using the numbers to show how and why most Republicans think impeachment is a very partisan political vendetta
I think you meant to say how and why they rationalize their support for Mr Trump in light of the facts which are obvious to any competent reader of the "transcript" as well as all the witnesses who have testified QPQ was their analysis of the facts on the ground in real time.

Or to put it another way ... Mr Trump could shoot someone i.e. hold up military defense aid to a country fighting a political enemy QPQ dirt on the Bidens for personal political advantage, etc and they would continue to support him. Now, the real question is why, not whether there is some fictitious partisan vendetta.

My answer provides greater insight into the real why.

Rationalization is another way to put it. Although I don't think there is anything rational about our politics these days. Politics is all about perceptions, right, wrong or indifferent. Republicans perceive the Democrats are out to remove Trump not because he did something that would warrant impeachment. But as revenge for losing an election.

This might or might not make any sense. There was an expression that went, "One side's terrorist is the other side's freedom fighters." Each side in this, pro and anti Trump view the other as their terrorist and themselves as freedom fighters.

I suppose as we become more and more polarized, more and more partisan and attach more and more importance to the R and the D, what we're going through will become the norm in our politics.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

Top
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