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#319683 - 01/05/20 08:41 PM Trump and our Military (A legal question)
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
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Should Trump's foreign properties come under attack or meet complete destruction, would Trump as Commander-in-Chief have the legal authority to send our military to fight the folks who destroyed his personal foreign properties?
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#319685 - 01/05/20 09:05 PM Re: Trump and our Military (A legal question) [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
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Originally Posted By: pdx rick


Should Trump's foreign properties come under attack or meet complete destruction, would Trump as Commander-in-Chief have the legal authority to send our military to fight the folks who destroyed his personal foreign properties?


Put it this way, after Trump's airstrike that killed Gen. Suleimani, Iran is now vowing to enrich uranium "without restrictions", which of course means that now they DO intend to develop any and all nuclear weapons at any cost....full speed ahead.

Donald Trump has made a nuclear equipped Iran a guaranteed fact.

Good work, Twumpy!! ThumbsUp
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#319686 - 01/05/20 09:15 PM Re: Trump and our Military (A legal question) [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
jgw Offline
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Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3239
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He has done a bit more than that. Up to now the only terrorists we have had to deal with are the Sunni ones (supported by folks like the Saudis). Now, however, Iran is putting us directly on their list of victims.

This is particularly interesting given that our gov doesn't even list the Saudis as the main source of Muslim extremists but, now, we are going to be gifted with them all!

In other words we have now managed to get BOTH sides of the 1000 year old Muslim war to fight us at the same time! Genius! Perhaps this means that our existence might turn them both into buddies thereby ending their 1000 year old war! This, I think, was the Trump plan all along. I wonder how many of our own will be dead before its all over.

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#319690 - 01/05/20 11:32 PM Re: Trump and our Military (A legal question) [Re: jgw]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42757
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: jgw
He has done a bit more than that. Up to now the only terrorists we have had to deal with are the Sunni ones (supported by folks like the Saudis). Now, however, Iran is putting us directly on their list of victims.

This is particularly interesting given that our gov doesn't even list the Saudis as the main source of Muslim extremists but, now, we are going to be gifted with them all!

In other words we have now managed to get BOTH sides of the 1000 year old Muslim war to fight us at the same time! Genius! Perhaps this means that our existence might turn them both into buddies thereby ending their 1000 year old war! This, I think, was the Trump plan all along. I wonder how many of our own will be dead before its all over.

..and Putin is laughing his ass off. gobsmacked
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#319698 - 01/06/20 04:47 AM Re: Trump and our Military (A legal question) [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
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We probably picked the wrong side in that conflict long ago. The Iranians were a fairly open and Westernized society when the Saudis were living in tents and riding around on camels. Saudis created the schools that led the 9/11 attackers to Osama Bin Ladan (another Saudi), and ISIS were all Sunnis.

Suleimani just helped defeat ISIS in Syria, often with US air cover. So why kill him now? Because Trump needs a war so he can get reelected. I think it would be funny if they went after a Trump asset. But the Iranians already said any armed response would against military targets, unlike Trump saying he would bomb cultural sites.

So I would hate to be a high ranking soldier about now. You never know when that sniper round is coming. If I was the US Commander In Chief, I would stop with the public appearances and hunker down in the bunker. I wonder if the White House is considered a military target?

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#319703 - 01/06/20 01:37 PM Re: Trump and our Military (A legal question) [Re: pdx rick]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 593
Originally Posted By: pdx rick


Should Trump's foreign properties come under attack or meet complete destruction, would Trump as Commander-in-Chief have the legal authority to send our military to fight the folks who destroyed his personal foreign properties?

According to the War Powers Act any president can insert our military anywhere as long as he notifies congress within 48 hours. Then any president can fight his little war for 60 days without approval of congress, then is given another 30 days to withdraw if congress hasn't approved any president's escapade. Which means any president can use our military force anywhere in the world for whatever reason for 90 days without approval of congress.

So an unintended consequence of the WPA is that it give a president 90 days to fight his war without approval or even with the disapproval of congress. Both major political parties have known this, but neither has taken any action to correct it. Which probably neither party wants to, especially when the president is of their own party.

Now Obama set a precedence of ignoring the WPA during Libya by simply stating it didn't apply to him and his Libyan operation. So that military operation continued way past the 60 and 90 day threshold of the WPA. The Democrats in congress gave Obama cover, the Democrats controlled the senate at the time, they basically agreed. The WPA didn't apply to the the Obama presidency, at least for Libya.

Here's the problem when it comes to laws like the WPA, congressional members of the party that holds the presidency have become over the years more a member of the president's administration than of the institution of congress. Members of congress of the president's party are more than willing to cede constitutional powers of congress to the president, to let the president regardless of party to get away with what he wants whenever he wants to. Only when both chambers of congress is controlled by the opposition party do we have any real congressional checks on the presidency. My two cents.

I'm sure in your situation, Trump would apply the Obama precedence by stating the WPA doesn't apply and the Republican members of congress would give him the cover to ensure the WPA doesn't apply to him, ALA Obama.



Edited by perotista (01/06/20 01:50 PM)
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#319704 - 01/06/20 02:53 PM Re: Trump and our Military (A legal question) [Re: perotista]
chunkstyle Offline
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Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
but, but, but.. when Dem presidents assassinate, sanction and militarily strike its for good and noble democratic purposes...

Surely, their actions can’t be used as a precedent?

This is the blue team we’re talkin bout. They play the good guys in our televised reality.


Edited by chunkstyle (01/06/20 02:54 PM)

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#319732 - 01/06/20 09:28 PM Re: Trump and our Military (A legal question) [Re: chunkstyle]
perotista Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 593
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
but, but, but.. when Dem presidents assassinate, sanction and militarily strike its for good and noble democratic purposes...

Surely, their actions can’t be used as a precedent?

This is the blue team we’re talkin bout. They play the good guys in our televised reality.


I lump the two together. Whatever one party does, the other party has the right to do the same thing. I go by the old adage of what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

I'm plain sick and tired of when one party or president does something, then that party rants and raves, condemns to the max the other party or president when they do basically the same thing. This leaves me believing we have nothing but a bunch as hypocrites as our elected officials and major party's leaders.

One set of core values when the president if of their own party, a completely different and opposite set of values when the president is of the other party. One can either come to the conclusion that neither major party has any core values or their values change constantly to whatever will give them a political advantage.
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It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#319739 - 01/06/20 10:53 PM Re: Trump and our Military (A legal question) [Re: perotista]
rporter314 Offline
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Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7203
Loc: Highlands, Tx
It's clear of course that military engagements are hostile, however, were the actions taken by the Obama administration covered by the WPA? I recollect two theories on this. One was the law may have been unConstitutional, and the other was what Pres Obama was doing was not covered by the law.

I suspect this is a question for the courts to parse the language and for the writers to offer their intent.

Did the Founders envision a world where there are so many complexities and nuances to consider in what for them was a much simpler time.
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#319740 - 01/06/20 10:54 PM Re: Trump and our Military (A legal question) [Re: perotista]
rporter314 Offline
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Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7203
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Quote:

I'm plain sick and tired of when one party or president does something, then that party rants and raves, condemns to the max the other party or president when they do basically the same thing.

Hasn't everyone become inured to the hypocrisy.

I expect it.
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