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#320277 - 01/21/20 04:17 PM Re: iranian general qassem soleimani [Re: CPWILL]
Hamish Howl Offline
newbie

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 487
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
Originally Posted By: Greger
I'm not sure I much give a rat's ass what happens in the Middle East. They're adults and capable of governing themselves, there is no constitutional mandate that suggests we need to force them to do it one way or another.


As the old saying goes, you may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.

Obama probably would have continued to delay taking serious action against ISIS. But then they started launching attacks in the West. (shrug)


There have been exactly two (2) ISIS attacks in America. One miserable failure that killed exactly no people, and a husband and wife team that killed 14 people in a mass shooting in 2015.

This is worth an endless, non-stop military engagement?

I can see retribution strikes, but not a "forever war".
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#320279 - 01/21/20 04:47 PM Re: iranian general qassem soleimani [Re: CPWILL]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7105
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
Obama probably would have continued to delay taking serious action against ISIS. But then they started launching attacks in the West.
One speculation. Another would be Pres Obama faced a strong headwind from Republicans regarding US intervention in places other than Iraq (note this may have been for a variety of reasons, almost all of which were simple justifications for the US to be on the border of Iran and opportunities in oil). When Pres Obama gave his infamous (according to Republicans) JV answer about ISIS, the current IC assessment was ISIS was nothing more than a small group in the desert (too bad they didn't have good intel). I suspect Pres Obama would have been more willing than you believe had he had a more accurate assessment of the threat.

It is always amazing how people have opine on history, it is always with 20/20 hindsight. I mean how can you get it wrong.
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#320293 - 01/21/20 06:51 PM Re: iranian general qassem soleimani [Re: Hamish Howl]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16531
Loc: Florida
Quote:
you may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.

No, war doesn't give a feck about me. Your fascination with it and feverish endorsement of it is cute though. Do you believe violence is the answer to all problems?
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#320297 - 01/21/20 07:08 PM Re: iranian general qassem soleimani [Re: CPWILL]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   happy
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15468
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
Originally Posted By: Greger
I'm not sure I much give a rat's ass what happens in the Middle East. They're adults and capable of governing themselves, there is no constitutional mandate that suggests we need to force them to do it one way or another.


As the old saying goes, you may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.


In the Middle East? I hardly think anything is of interest to us aside from oil and Israel, in that order too, by the way.

If we were actually paying the TRUE cost of our oil, and that means tacking the cost of our military misadventures to the pump instead of through a series of largely unnamed taxes, you'd see support for the ME dip dramatically overnight because that pump price would be about eleven bucks a gallon overnight.

SO, war is NOT interested in me, OIL companies are interested in war.
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#320300 - 01/21/20 07:19 PM Re: iranian general qassem soleimani [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16531
Loc: Florida
CP has made it clear he does not believe oil is a factor in the Middle Eastern wars.
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#320301 - 01/21/20 07:21 PM Re: iranian general qassem soleimani [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   happy
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15468
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Greger
CP has made it clear he does not believe oil is a factor in the Middle Eastern wars.


Sorry but every single energy expert and every single petroleum company CEO disagrees. So does Trump, who repeatedly insists we can just take the oil.
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#320305 - 01/21/20 07:32 PM Re: iranian general qassem soleimani [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Hamish Howl Offline
newbie

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 487
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: Greger
CP has made it clear he does not believe oil is a factor in the Middle Eastern wars.


Sorry but every single energy expert and every single petroleum company CEO disagrees. So does Trump, who repeatedly insists we can just take the oil.


Nobody wants the oil itself.

They want to control the rate at which that oil is allowed to flow to the market. That's what gets you rich like Goddamn pharaohs.
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#320310 - 01/21/20 07:51 PM Re: iranian general qassem soleimani [Re: Greger]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3080
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I think he is probably right. The wars in the middle east is based, basically, on the simple fact that Sunnis and Shia have been having a war for over 1000 years. its actually that simple.

Its also interesting that the Iraqis youth are so sick and tired of it that those sides have joined forces to get ALL non Iraqis out of Iraq. I have no idea where that goes but it is interesting and, possibly, the first time both parties have gotten together to do something.

All that being said the fact remains - there is war in the Middle East. Its been going on for over 1000 years and we decided, I don't know when, to help our best pals, the Saudis. That was probably the beginning of spending, literally, trillions of dollars to do a little 'helping' (we LOVE to 'help'!)

ITS TIME TO GET THE HELL OUT OF THE MIDDLE EAST - ALL OUT!

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#320313 - 01/21/20 07:53 PM Re: iranian general qassem soleimani [Re: Hamish Howl]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16531
Loc: Florida
And the only card Iran holds in the game is the 26 mile wide Straits of Hormuz. Upstream is the Persian Gulf, from which all Saudi oil flows.
F*ck with Iran enough and they will turn it into a flaming junkyard and turn off the oil spigot American interests rely upon.

We can't just bomb them back to the stone age without looking like big bullies on the world stage so they've got to attack us before the bombing begins. Iranians know what's up though, so all they ever do is the little token counterattacks.
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#320325 - 01/21/20 08:52 PM Re: iranian general qassem soleimani [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9538
Loc: North San Diego County
We are not actually dependent on Saudi oil: It goes to other countries. But oil is fungible, like money. So any cutoff of Saudi oil would raise the price of oil worldwide, and US oil companies would benefit by selling their US produced oil to those other countries. IS the conflict with Iran a case of oil companies' tail wagging the dog?

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