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#320208 - 01/20/20 03:31 PM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: pdx rick]
CPWILL Offline
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Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 422
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
...The color of a president matters much less than his party.

TBagger depictions of Obama in African witch doctor garb tells us what's really the truth. smile

There is probably somewhere a conservative who finds nut-picking a convincing argument, but, I assure you, that conservative is not me.

Republicans were fired-up behind cutting the government when Carter was President and ran the Reagan Revolution to do so.... and then Reagan got in, and increased government spending instead, and Republicans loved him. Republicans were fired up behind cutting the government when Clinton was President, and had the Contract with America and everything... and then, W Bush became President, and increased spending, and Republicans generally liked him. Republicans were fired up behind cutting the government when Obama was President, and had the Tea Party and then...

As everyone knows, traditional Republicans and TBaggers aka modern Conservatives, are two different political animals. My comment was specific to TBaggers - the modern Conservative.

To conflate the two is being intellectually dishonest.

For the TBaggers, Obama's skin color was the quintessential objection to his presidency, along with Obama being an alleged Kenyan Marxist. And now with an old white racist Boomer in the WH again, TBaggers are comfortable with higher deficits and the direction this country is heading in.

Hmm


:shrug: you are projecting opposition to your motivations to those who oppose your means in order to smear them.

1. It's about as effective and meaningful as the people chanting Jews Will Not Replace Us, convinced that the Democrat party is part of a giant movement to get rid of white people.

2. It immunizes actual racists to the charge of racism by making the accusation first into a joke and then into a badge of honor - not because it is believed, but because it is understood to be the leftist version of "this person is an effective conservative and so we must call him a racist".

The tendency from the left to loudly proclaim that any opposition to their political platform was racism is not a small part of how you got Trump. When an actual racist came along, the charge only helped him, because of how it had been abused.*


So, if you like Trump, well, keep doing what got you Trump. If you don't like Trump, maybe reconsider your preference for looking down on the Other. smile It is, after all, a form of bigotry, and it harms your ability to come to rational conclusions flowing from intellectual empathy. People are capable of disagreeing - even strongly! - from good intentions wink.




*Worth noting - Republicans have done pretty much the same thing with "Socialism".


Edited by CPWILL (01/20/20 03:38 PM)
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#320210 - 01/20/20 03:34 PM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: logtroll]
CPWILL Offline
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Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 422
Originally Posted By: logtroll
What does prosperous mean to you?


I'll admit to having defined it here in economic terms. If you were to ask me what a Prosperous Life looked like, I would probably also talk about family, community, a feeling of earned achievement, and the belief that one has made a difference in the lives of others.
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#320211 - 01/20/20 03:34 PM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: CPWILL]
Hamish Howl Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 603
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
[quote=logtroll][quote=CPWILL]This crap is
We are currently in the most prosperous time in the history of the Human Species... so....


For some.
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#320215 - 01/20/20 03:44 PM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: CPWILL]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10253
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
Originally Posted By: logtroll
What does prosperous mean to you?

I'll admit to having defined it here in economic terms. If you were to ask me what a Prosperous Life looked like, I would probably also talk about family, community, a feeling of earned achievement, and the belief that one has made a difference in the lives of others.

I would add that prosperity assessment needs to include externalized costs (think climate change), security (healthcare and economic), sustainability (stewardship of resources), etc. And the very idea that economic prosperity can include maxxing out multiple credit cards and other sorts of indulgent debt to live prosperously is highly suspect.

I think an objective and thoughtful assessment of historically comparative "prosperity" would be difficult, but would show that we certainly have the most profligate society ever, but not the most prosperous.
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To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
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#320219 - 01/20/20 04:00 PM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: logtroll]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 422
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
Originally Posted By: logtroll
What does prosperous mean to you?

I'll admit to having defined it here in economic terms. If you were to ask me what a Prosperous Life looked like, I would probably also talk about family, community, a feeling of earned achievement, and the belief that one has made a difference in the lives of others.

I would add that prosperity assessment needs to include externalized costs (think climate change), security (healthcare and economic), sustainability (stewardship of resources), etc. And the very idea that economic prosperity can include maxxing out multiple credit cards and other sorts of indulgent debt to live prosperously is highly suspect.

I think an objective and thoughtful assessment of historically comparative "prosperity" would be difficult, but would show that we certainly have the most profligate society ever, but not the most prosperous.


Hm. I don't know if I would accept security as that strong a measure - slaves have security in that tomorrow they will probably be equally wealthy as they are today, that doesn't increase their prosperity.

Externalized costs I agree can be brought in, but only to the extent that they are impacting the individual now. In China, for example, I could see the environmental damage in cities as an actual detriment to human prosperity, as it lowers life spans. Scare threats about how In A Decade The Planet Will OMG Literally Die And Explode don't reduce actual prosperity, they just increase anxiety among those who really buy into them.

As for debt - again, I agree it's a huge problem. That doesn't mean that our standard of living isn't higher than any other point in human history. We are more prosperous now than at any other time in our species :shrug:

What era would you say the human species was better off in?
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#320220 - 01/20/20 04:01 PM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: Hamish Howl]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 422
Originally Posted By: Hamish Howl
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
[quote=logtroll][quote=CPWILL]This crap is
We are currently in the most prosperous time in the history of the Human Species... so....


For some.


Literally billions of them.
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#320221 - 01/20/20 04:13 PM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: CPWILL]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10253
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
What era would you say the human species was better off in?

None.

Humans individually often have more good than bad in us, but as a species we have always been mindlessly destructive - now more than ever.
_________________________
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To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
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#320222 - 01/20/20 04:37 PM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: logtroll]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 422
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
What era would you say the human species was better off in?

None.

Humans individually often have more good than bad in us, but as a species we have always been mindlessly destructive - now more than ever.


If I may offer some fascinating reading....



...The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined is a 2011 book by Steven Pinker, in which the author argues that violence in the world has declined both in the long run and in the short run and suggests explanations as to why this has occurred. The book uses data simply documenting declining violence across time and geography. This paints a picture of massive declines in violence of all forms, from war, to improved treatment of children. He highlights the role of nation-state monopolies on force, of commerce (making "other people become more valuable alive than dead"), of increased literacy and communication (promoting empathy), as well as a rise in a rational problem-solving orientation as possible causes of this decline in violence. He notes that, paradoxically, our impression of violence has not tracked this decline, perhaps because of increased communication, and that further decline is not inevitable...


Edited by CPWILL (01/20/20 04:39 PM)
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#320223 - 01/20/20 05:30 PM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: CPWILL]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10253
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Interesting... I wasn't even thinking about violence.
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To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
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#320229 - 01/20/20 07:06 PM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: logtroll]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 422
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Interesting... I wasn't even thinking about violence.


I suppose "Mindlessly Destructive" is what caused me to think of it.
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