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#320476 - 01/24/20 04:51 AM Re: I just don't get Trump [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
CPWILL Offline
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Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 157
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
On the other side, conservatives (and Christians) tend to be the ones who spend more time actually manning the soup kitchens and food banks.


I have spent some time manning soup kitchens and food banks.


smile Good! I'll admit, it's a place in my life I feel convicted about. I am okay at serving others in ways mostly that I feel drawn to, not so good at finding ways to serve others where I might be uncomfortable.

Quote:
Back in Arkansas Karen and I were as poor as church mice and so a bit of volunteering was prescribed as a means to an end, namely that of getting a bit more in our paper sack at the end of the day.

Conservatives manning the soup kitchens and food banks?
I am so sorry, but they manned the offices, they manned the books and they manned the public pulpit but the folks actually handing out the soup and food were not "according to Hoyle conservatives" except maybe in a nominal sense.


:shrug: It may not be your personal experience, but them's the numbers.

Quote:
The Jonesboro Church of the Nazarene booted the two of us out of the congregation.


Well, I can't speak for them, but, Church Discipline is explicitly required per the New Testament. If you were doing something they believed required it, such as living together while unmarried, that is a morally consistent action for them to have taken. I'm sorry if they were jerks about it :-/

Quote:
We could not afford to marry because my job at the pallet factory would put us in too high of an income bracket for Daryl to receive the three open heart surgeries before age five that he needed in order to survive.


Good Night. shocked That sounds horrific and absolutely wracking for a parent. How is he now?

Quote:
My job banging pallets together paid a whopping $7.25 an hour.

So when it was discovered that we were "cohabitatin' undercover" it was decided that we were putting Pastor Ken Stallings in an untenable position. And we were no longer welcome at their food bank either.


As a volunteer and representative of the Church? Well, again, yes - that is not only imposed by scripture, but was actually also intended for your own spiritual benefit.

You probably were too upset to see that (and it is quite likely also that you were dealing with people who either didn't communicate it, or who themselves were judgmental jerks, and didn't live out that intent of the command), being rather naturally more concerned about your kid. I'm surprised that simply being married by the church but not by the State wasn't an option.


But I also have to ask - if you wanted to be a member of the Church, but weren't willing to participate fully and live out a life according to the beliefs of the Church... respectfully, what you describe here kind of sounds like you were dishonestly using them as a charity, while pretending to be a member in good standing. As you say, "a means to an end."


Edited by CPWILL (01/24/20 04:53 AM)
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#320478 - 01/24/20 04:54 AM Re: I just don't get Trump [Re: CPWILL]
Hamish Howl Offline
newbie

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 402
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: CPWILL

But I also have to ask - if you wanted to be a member of the Church, but weren't willing to participate fully and live out a life according to the beliefs of the Church... respectfully, what you describe here kind of sounds like you were dishonestly using them as a charity, while pretending to be a member in good standing. As you say, "a means to an end."


Sort of the way Trump is using the evangelicals?
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#320479 - 01/24/20 04:58 AM Re: I just don't get Trump [Re: Hamish Howl]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 157
Originally Posted By: Hamish Howl
How very Christ-like of them.


Yes, actually. The New Testament - and Christ - laid out the procedures for Church Discipline, which is what he is describing. What would have been unChristlike of them would have been had they instead decided to prioritize worldly benefits over the deadliness of sin. Loving someone is not the same as enabling them.
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#320480 - 01/24/20 04:58 AM Re: I just don't get Trump [Re: Hamish Howl]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 157
Originally Posted By: Hamish Howl
Originally Posted By: CPWILL

But I also have to ask - if you wanted to be a member of the Church, but weren't willing to participate fully and live out a life according to the beliefs of the Church... respectfully, what you describe here kind of sounds like you were dishonestly using them as a charity, while pretending to be a member in good standing. As you say, "a means to an end."


Sort of the way Trump is using the evangelicals?


I don't think I'd ascribe to him in this story the narcissism and abuse of Trump (or the corrupting effect that Trump has), but, I suppose, yes. frown


Edited by CPWILL (01/24/20 04:59 AM)
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#320490 - 01/24/20 02:22 PM Re: I just don't get Trump [Re: CPWILL]
Hamish Howl Offline
newbie

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 402
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
Originally Posted By: Hamish Howl
How very Christ-like of them.


Yes, actually. The New Testament - and Christ - laid out the procedures for Church Discipline, which is what he is describing. What would have been unChristlike of them would have been had they instead decided to prioritize worldly benefits over the deadliness of sin. Loving someone is not the same as enabling them.


Yeah, that's why Jesus was very careful to shun tax collectors and other kinds of prostitutes.
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#320505 - 01/24/20 06:33 PM Re: I just don't get Trump [Re: CPWILL]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16262
Loc: Florida
Quote:
What would have been unChristlike of them would have been had they instead decided to prioritize worldly benefits over the deadliness of sin.


Sinful Jeffery was stealin' from the church! His ass'll burn for that sh*t!
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#320506 - 01/24/20 06:42 PM Re: I just don't get Trump [Re: Hamish Howl]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2899
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
except for the human female version? <g>

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#320530 - 01/25/20 04:29 AM Re: I just don't get Trump [Re: Hamish Howl]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 157
Originally Posted By: Hamish Howl
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
Originally Posted By: Hamish Howl
How very Christ-like of them.


Yes, actually. The New Testament - and Christ - laid out the procedures for Church Discipline, which is what he is describing. What would have been unChristlike of them would have been had they instead decided to prioritize worldly benefits over the deadliness of sin. Loving someone is not the same as enabling them.


Yeah, that's why Jesus was very careful to shun tax collectors and other kinds of prostitutes.


smile Jesus actually stated that if someone was committing sin within the Church and refused to change after being confronted first by you and then by the body, that yes, in fact, you were to shun them. The Epistles repeated this direction, and mentions examples of it happening. Once in the Early Church (in the very first days) when a couple lied to the Church (and to the Holy Spirit) regarding money, the penalty was death.


Edited by CPWILL (01/25/20 04:29 AM)
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#320552 - 01/25/20 06:55 PM Re: I just don't get Trump [Re: CPWILL]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16262
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Jesus actually stated...


Pics or it didn't happen.

Chistians say a lot of things, most of it pulled straight from their asses. Let's try to stick to facts here, the Bible is not a valid reference.

I agree that Jefferey should have been booted from the church for co-habitation prior to marriage and besmirching the reputation of his pastor by doing so. I expect that from the church. They're basically assh*oles that way. Judgemental holier than thou pricks so to speak. Ministering only to the faithful and obedient.
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#320553 - 01/25/20 07:29 PM Re: I just don't get Trump [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9872
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: Greger
Chistians say a lot of things, most of it pulled straight from their asses. Let's try to stick to facts here, the Bible is not a valid reference.

Brings back memories from my youth when I was trying to sort out the brainwashing I got in school (regular school, not church school), from Jesus stories to Christmas plays and the like (never got any "education" about any other religions) and what I learned about philosophy and religion a little bit later in life.

I had a real problem with my born-again friends who told me I could convert by simply "accepting Jesus as my saviour", which only amounted to saying the words, whether I understood anything by them, or not. I quickly saw that they would give you a "Born Again" ballcap, even if you were lying (which most of them were). Then there was the contingent that argued that the "teachings of Jesus" were the one and only moral code.

After some study of the other spiritual and philosophical ways, and noting that they all shared certain credible moral teachings that actually made sense, even to a secular fellow like myself... and that many of them preached other clearly contradictory moralities... I decided that Jesus was essentially an unessential fiction as a beacon to living a good and moral life.

As for the Bible, the several times I tried to read it all failed to find it to be anything but the jumble of contributions from a full cadre of manipulative oddballs that it is. Why it became and remains so influential is beyond my understanding.

I don't normally state this out loud because I have found that, on this particular subject, Christians tend to be a judgmental and illogically bigoted tribe who take their childish beliefs very seriously.

I don't like to deal with hostile prejudice from crazy people.
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