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#320539 - 01/25/20 03:33 PM Re: What should we be doing to adapt to large scale crises? [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9871
Loc: One of the Mexicos
We are in a systems crisis...

Quote:
It is no wonder that following the inspirational lead of Greta Thunberg, some have seen little option except to take to the streets through protest movements like Extinction Rebellion. The hope is that sustained nonviolent resistance can compel governments to take the urgent action necessary to transition rapidly to fossil fuel free societies.

But there is a serious faultline in this approach. XR suffered from a serious lack of joined-up thinking. It was not grounded in a comprehension of the climate crisis as a systems crisis, and therefore failed to explicitly link up climate action to other key systems such as austerity, food, water, politics, culture, and ideology. XR therefore failed to appeal to the working class and largely occluded people of colour and diverse faith groups.

The other faultline is that the target of action ó national government ó may well have missed the point. Governments are merely nodes in a wider system of power which they do not really control, but tend to pander to ó a system of power which we are all to varying degrees and in different ways complict in.

https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/escaping-extinction-through-paradigm-shift-83e33d4cb548
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#320544 - 01/25/20 05:41 PM Re: What should we be doing to adapt to large scale crises? [Re: CPWILL]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16258
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I am a huge fan of investing in resiliency / anti-fragility measures.


Sorry pal, nice thought, but you represent the party to which any such investment is anathema. No new taxes, no spending on infrastructure, no emergency management. And nothing, ever for the poors who are most devastated in times of crisis.

But it's nice to hear that deep down you're really a liberal.
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#320557 - 01/25/20 08:32 PM Re: What should we be doing to adapt to large scale crises? [Re: logtroll]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2890
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
To address the title of this topic. The question is a good one but the problem is a bit different. Basically nothing large scale will be done until the crisis has happened. This seems to be a fact of human nature. We have known about climate change for well over 2 generations - its scientific fact! But, the United States, the arguably richest and best educated major nation in the world has seen to elect a president that well not recognize global warming and seems incredibly ignorant of some basic facts.

I know, that's just one but it just goes on and on. We know, for instance, that our infrastructure, which supports most of our jobs (and other things) is melting down to utter failure. We have ignored that one for years too.

The simple fact is that most of our politicians mouth lots of baloney about this stuff but, once elected, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HAPPENS! These are the politicians that WE elected! There is even groups, on all sides, that support these do nothing wastes of time as if they are actually the Lord Incarnate.

So, there are, I am equally sure, lots and lots of plans to deal with large scale crises but - ITS NOT GONNA HAPPEN. Not only that but its OUR fault. Its pretty obvious that we would rather beat up each other anytime the opportunity occurs.

This actually may be some sort of weird definition of the species and I am equally sure we are working very hard to prove it.

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#320559 - 01/25/20 09:07 PM Re: What should we be doing to adapt to large scale crises? [Re: jgw]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16258
Loc: Florida
Quote:
This actually may be some sort of weird definition of the species and I am equally sure we are working very hard to prove it.

And this reminds me of that old saying that Republicans believe government is inept and causes more problems than it solves. And when in power, they set out to prove it.

They've been in power a long time. They cut off Obam's nuts after two years, they impeached Clinton, and it's a crying shame what they did to Carter. They vilified Johnson and shot Kennedy. Did I miss anybody?

State and local government are pretty much responsible for reaction and cleanup. If Uncle Sugar is in the mood he'll send some relief money when it's all said and done. Most of that will go into the hands of corrupt local politicians and business interests.
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#320562 - 01/25/20 11:15 PM Re: What should we be doing to adapt to large scale crises? [Re: logtroll]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9290
Loc: North San Diego County
Personally, we have several integrated bulk containers (250 gal) filled with rain water, and a solar power system that gives us 1200 watts if the electric grid is down and the sun is shining. We also have several solar recharged portable lights so we can find our way around the house and grounds at night. That might be enough power to keep the food in the freezer from going bad while we eat it. But I do have a bunch more solar panels I could rig up if need be. We also still have some avocados on the trees we would pick. So we are pretty well fixed for any infrastructure breakdown that only lasts about a month.

A more severe event like a nuclear attack: I overlook a lot of Camp Pendleton, so buh bye! No worries if you are safely dead.

I also have a thought on root vegetables: Not a lot of potatoes are grown in Chicago. It's probably not a good idea to plant a vegetable garden if you live there, lead-wise. Were I live, I get a pretty steady wind from the Pacific, so I doubt our soil has much lead in it.

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#320573 - 01/26/20 02:00 AM Re: What should we be doing to adapt to large scale crises? [Re: logtroll]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15065
Loc: Whittier, California
We have a lot of stored potable water and lesser quality H2O for other purposes, lots of canned and dry goods, and a sh!t ton of battery operated lights, thanks to my film-TV career of the recent past.
I can generate almost 2kW off available batteries for about six hours but after that we either have to fire up our tiny gasoline gennie or run the cars, which of course would deplete needed fuel for transportation.

I've been thinking about getting a natural gas gennie for a while but right now we are in a tough spot financially so no dice on that for the next couple of months.
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#320578 - 01/26/20 04:45 AM Re: What should we be doing to adapt to large scale crises? [Re: Greger]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 157
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
I am a huge fan of investing in resiliency / anti-fragility measures.


Sorry pal, nice thought, but you represent the party to which any such investment is anathema.


1. Your presumption is wrong - I left the GOP when they nominated an immoral carnival barker as their nominee.

2. Your assessment is, also, wrong - there is a heavy conservative movement into these sorts of things.

I think it tends to be a movement of the ends of both our broad divisions, actually - the more conservative you are, the more you care about this sort of thing, but usually from a perspective of anti-fragility and a desire not to be subject to the demands of others, and the more liberal you are, you care about this sort of thing, but usually from a perspective of environmentalism. The letters to the editor for publicans such as the Mother Earth News, for example, can contain an entertaining mix of the far left and far right :p

But you seem to be confusing this with:

Quote:
No new taxes, no spending on infrastructure, no emergency management.


Which is incorrect. Republicans aren't against infrastructure spending, they tend to oppose (during Democrat administrations) massive government giveaways that are titled "infrastructure" spending, but which don't, actually, take care of much infrastructure. Infrastructure maintenance is boring, and involves spending bit by bit, year by year. It's not a "shovel ready jobs" program. Additionally, it was a Republican President who created NORTHCOM, and DHS.

Everybody wants to get disaster management right. From a purely partisan position, it's one of the few areas where we actually expect something from our leaders, and punish them if they don't provide it.

Quote:
And nothing, ever for the poors who are most devastated in times of crisis.


This is also incorrect. Conservatives tend to give more of their own money, time, blood, and effort to help the poor, and also tend to show up during disaster to physically help. The Cajun Navy isn't made up of a bunch of Feminist-Protest-Poetry majors.


Quote:
But it's nice to hear that deep down you're really a liberal.


smile Conservatives in this country are generally trying to conserve classic liberalism. The liberals are the ones who stole the name after Progressive got such a bad rap following the Wilson Administration wink.



But, of course, this thread is about trying to adapt to large scale crises, not about trying to throw stones at what we imagine each other's associated political parties to be. smile


Edited by CPWILL (01/26/20 06:44 PM)
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#320579 - 01/26/20 04:48 AM Re: What should we be doing to adapt to large scale crises? [Re: Greger]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 157
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
This actually may be some sort of weird definition of the species and I am equally sure we are working very hard to prove it.

And this reminds me of that old saying that Republicans believe government is inept and causes more problems than it solves. And when in power, they set out to prove it.

They've been in power a long time. They cut off Obam's nuts after two years, they impeached Clinton, and it's a crying shame what they did to Carter. They vilified Johnson and shot Kennedy. Did I miss anybody?


Kennedy was shot by a Communist. Respectfully, adding in ridiculous accusations like that doesn't do much to credit your other claims. President Pen And A Phone didn't lose anything other than a crap-ton of seats for his party down-ticket.


Edited by CPWILL (01/26/20 04:48 AM)
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#320584 - 01/26/20 01:42 PM Re: What should we be doing to adapt to large scale crises? [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9871
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Mrs. Munchkin sides with Greta.
Mr. Munchkin mad
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#320600 - 01/26/20 07:28 PM Re: What should we be doing to adapt to large scale crises? [Re: CPWILL]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16258
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Kennedy was shot by a Communist.


But as communists go he was more of a republican than a democrat...
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