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#320534 - 01/25/20 01:57 PM Is Capitalism doomed?
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9872
Loc: One of the Mexicos
The disintegration of global Capitalism

Quote:
For most of the twentieth century, he says, global capitalism was on an “integrating” pathway toward higher concentrations of transnational wealth. This was interrupted by the outbreaks of violent nationalism involving the two world wars. After that, a new form of “integrated capitalism” emerged based on an institutional framework that has allowed industrialised countries to avoid a world war for 70 years.

This system is now entering a period of disintegration. Previously, fractures within the system between rich and poor were overcome “by distributing a bit of the gains of the tremendous increase of the fruits of the global division of labour to the richer working classes in these nations.” Similarly, international tensions were diffused through transnational governance frameworks and agreements for the regulation of capitalism.
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#320548 - 01/25/20 06:17 PM Re: Is Capitalism doomed? [Re: logtroll]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16262
Loc: Florida
You're just poking at me with this aren't you Loggy?

Of course capitalism is doomed. We've reached the end stage of it, almost all the wealth in the world is concentrated in just a few hands and those few who still hold some amount of wealth are watching it evaporate into more and more debt. Most in the world today have nothing and will never have anything. Even home ownership in the US is dwindling, prices so high and wages so low that most Millenials will never own a home.

Not even a pot to piss in.

They'll need to rent one from the Pisspot Corp, a subsidiary of Bezos Unlimited.

The question has been bandied about whether Capitalism can create it's own solutions. It could...but then it would no longer be Capitalism.
It's a bit of a conundrum for Capitalists.

I picture squatters living like rats in the abandoned McMansions of affluent Boomers whose fortunes were squandered on luxurious lifestyles while the world burned around them. Cities dark at night. Life, short and brutal.

Yep, we done f*cked up. And yep, Capitalism is doomed. But there's still room for a happy ending.

If the greed of capitalism can be reigned in.
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#320551 - 01/25/20 06:45 PM Re: Is Capitalism doomed? [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9872
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Just poking in general. I like your response. smile
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#320565 - 01/25/20 11:56 PM Re: Is Capitalism doomed? [Re: logtroll]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9290
Loc: North San Diego County
Actually, I suspect it is self-limiting like most things: Having a big pile of gold does you no good when the starving poor people come to eat you and your children. Or when you contract drug-resistant TB from a street-beggar walking into the opera. Living in a self-made Third World shithole is not pleasant: You want nice tree-lined avenues without hordes of starving people. You want Public Health. You want clean water. You want police to maintain peace and order. None of these things work in a system where a few billionaires have all the wealth.

A lot of the problems we have in this country are because we have concentrated too much in the hands of too few. But the solution does not have to involve heads on pikes, Just changing the income tax rates, restoring the inheritance tax, giving young people who can benefit from it good state-supported education, and such would do a lot. There are plenty of other tweaks, like earned income tax credit, daycare tax credit for working poors, etc. But those are the smaller things.

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#320567 - 01/26/20 12:26 AM Re: Is Capitalism doomed? [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16262
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Having a big pile of gold does you no good when the starving poor people come to eat you and your children.

Unless you have private security to gun them down before they reach the gates. Like in the Zombie movies...the hordes hafta be put down.

Galtian Dystopia.
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#320572 - 01/26/20 01:46 AM Re: Is Capitalism doomed? [Re: logtroll]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9290
Loc: North San Diego County
But America is awash with guns! Some of them are sure to show up outside your security, and after all the supply of poor people is endless because that's what the rich people wanted. They make their own environment filled with toxic waste, and then start dying from that.

This is a recurring theme in Biology.

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#320652 - 01/27/20 07:51 PM Re: Is Capitalism doomed? [Re: logtroll]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9290
Loc: North San Diego County
Here's a nice summary of the American economic system from Green Earth by Kim Stanley Robinson:

Quote:
You work every day of the year except for three lousy weeks. You make around a hundred thousand dollars. Your boss takes two thirds of that and gives you one third, then you give a third of that to the government. Your government uses what it gets to build all the roads and schools and police and pensions, and your boss takes his much larger share and buys a mansion on an island somewhere. So naturally you complain about your bloated inefficient Big Brother of a government, and you always vote for the pro-owner party.


That 100K he's talking about is your 33K gross pay plus the surplus value of your labor. It is simplified a bit, since the median salary is under 30K, and the median vacation time is under three weeks.

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#320659 - 01/27/20 10:08 PM Re: Is Capitalism doomed? [Re: Greger]
Hamish Howl Offline
newbie

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 402
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: Greger

Of course capitalism is doomed. We've reached the end stage of it, almost all the wealth in the world is concentrated in just a few hands and those few who still hold some amount of wealth are watching it evaporate into more and more debt.



I'd love to agree with you, but if capitalism survived the gilded age, it can survive even this.
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#320660 - 01/27/20 10:10 PM Re: Is Capitalism doomed? [Re: pondering_it_all]
Hamish Howl Offline
newbie

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 402
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Actually, I suspect it is self-limiting like most things: Having a big pile of gold does you no good when the starving poor people come to eat you and your children. Or when you contract drug-resistant TB from a street-beggar walking into the opera. Living in a self-made Third World shithole is not pleasant: You want nice tree-lined avenues without hordes of starving people. You want Public Health. You want clean water. You want police to maintain peace and order. None of these things work in a system where a few billionaires have all the wealth.

A lot of the problems we have in this country are because we have concentrated too much in the hands of too few. But the solution does not have to involve heads on pikes, Just changing the income tax rates, restoring the inheritance tax, giving young people who can benefit from it good state-supported education, and such would do a lot. There are plenty of other tweaks, like earned income tax credit, daycare tax credit for working poors, etc. But those are the smaller things.


It's you against 40 years of destructive conditioning.

It is now a Pavlovian response to react to any effort to reign in the ultra-rich with scorn or hostility.
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#320704 - 01/28/20 08:58 PM Re: Is Capitalism doomed? [Re: Hamish Howl]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16262
Loc: Florida
Quote:
if capitalism survived the gilded age, it can survive even this.


What I'm sayin' here is that if capitalism survives it will be alone on a hot dead planet.
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