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#320793 - 01/30/20 03:18 AM Re: Boomers have socialism. Why not Millennials? [Re: CPWILL]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: CPWILL

The vast majority of our populace used to be involved in farming. The struggle just to feed ourselves and produce enough to create a surplus that we could trade and support a handful of skilled craftsmen with was real. As technology and our understanding developed, fewer and fewer of us were needed in agriculture - today about 2% of the U.S. populace has the capacity to grow enough food to feed every man woman and child on the planet (and, every year, the Federal Government spends billions of dollars making sure they don't accidentally do so). Why should "not enough of our people manufacture things" be any more of a threat than "not enough of our people grow food" was? We have a higher industrial production now than ever before, with fewer industrial workers, just as we produce more food now with fewer agricultural workers.


Because, as was discussed here recently, the threads that hold it all together are fraying beyond repair, and the moment the trucks stop rolling, most cities will have enough stuff (including food) to last about a day or two, then the food riots start in earnest, that's why.

And even if you CAN grow some of your own food, we have stupidly allowed laws and ordinances to be passed that say you are not allowed to do it. Some will let you have a tiny garden in the back but only a lawn in front, and some don't allow you to grow anything at all anywhere on your property except a lawn and flowers.

If you can eat it, that's a big NO NO.

Now tell us all how a single mother with no car and very little cash is going to farm herself and her kids to self sufficiency in Santa Fe Springs, California on one tenth of an acre in an HOA neighborhood.

I can tell you how...her kids will join a gang.
_________________________
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#320805 - 01/30/20 07:44 PM Re: Boomers have socialism. Why not Millennials? [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
If all the manufacturing employees in China want to buy American services, there is no reason why we can't live well off that. We do still manufacture a lot, but a lot of that is intellectual property. Just 0's and 1's but so is the global financial system. Nobody is shipping gold ingots around by Wells Fargo stagecoach any more. You just need to see the bigger picture: Instead of the manufacturing taking place in the industrial area south of town, it's happening in China. But anybody can buy stock in those Chinese companies, so it does not only benefit the Chinese.


You're joking, right? China buying our "services"?
Not in a million years.
People making between $7.25 and 15 bucks an hour buying stocks?
Yeah-okayfinewhatever...you'll have to show me proof of concept on that one.

And manufacturing has now, according to the Associated Press, fallen to the lowest level in a decade.
_________________________
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#320811 - 01/30/20 08:59 PM Re: Boomers have socialism. Why not Millennials? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16845
Loc: Florida
As the economy gets stranger and stranger we are seeing a smallish movement towards cottage industries and local markets. Small family farms, local breweries, small scale creameries, stitchery and crafting of all sorts. There are countless Americans supplementing their incomes with small businesses. They can service local markets and sell their wares online. Lots of people are transitioning to a simpler life already.

The old ways are proving not to be sustainable.
The rat-race has spun out of control.
It's time to poison the rats.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#320819 - 01/30/20 10:32 PM Re: Boomers have socialism. Why not Millennials? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 336
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: CPWILL

The vast majority of our populace used to be involved in farming. The struggle just to feed ourselves and produce enough to create a surplus that we could trade and support a handful of skilled craftsmen with was real. As technology and our understanding developed, fewer and fewer of us were needed in agriculture - today about 2% of the U.S. populace has the capacity to grow enough food to feed every man woman and child on the planet (and, every year, the Federal Government spends billions of dollars making sure they don't accidentally do so). Why should "not enough of our people manufacture things" be any more of a threat than "not enough of our people grow food" was? We have a higher industrial production now than ever before, with fewer industrial workers, just as we produce more food now with fewer agricultural workers.


Because, as was discussed here recently, the threads that hold it all together are fraying beyond repair, and the moment the trucks stop rolling, most cities will have enough stuff (including food) to last about a day or two, then the food riots start in earnest, that's why.


Okay. Why should I consider that a natural or even (as you suggest) inevitable impending impediment to growth any more than Zombies, Robot Apocalypses, or any other hypothetical dystopian presupposition?

I mean, if your measure of "this economy is sustainable" is "can this economy survive ceasing to exist", then no economy is.

Quote:
And even if you CAN grow some of your own food, we have stupidly allowed laws and ordinances to be passed that say you are not allowed to do it.


Yup. Someone decided the government needs to be in charge of those kinds of decisions. So glad we have a government that feels emboldened to stick it's nose into what we do on our own property with that degree of specificity and presumption.
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#320821 - 01/30/20 10:34 PM Re: Boomers have socialism. Why not Millennials? [Re: Greger]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 336
Originally Posted By: Greger
As the economy gets stranger and stranger we are seeing a smallish movement towards cottage industries and local markets. Small family farms, local breweries, small scale creameries, stitchery and crafting of all sorts. There are countless Americans supplementing their incomes with small businesses. They can service local markets and sell their wares online. Lots of people are transitioning to a simpler life already.

The old ways are proving not to be sustainable.
The rat-race has spun out of control.
It's time to poison the rats.


Great idea. Let's give the government the right to determine who is and is not a productive member of society, and eliminate those it finds net non-beneficial. There's no way Donald Trump abuses that power at all.
_________________________
Winter Is Coming

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#320824 - 01/30/20 11:41 PM Re: Boomers have socialism. Why not Millennials? [Re: CPWILL]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10151
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Trump would be the first to go - in a sane world.
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You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
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#320825 - 01/31/20 12:21 AM Re: Boomers have socialism. Why not Millennials? [Re: CPWILL]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16845
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Great idea. Let's give the government the right to determine who is and is not a productive member of society, and eliminate those it finds net non-beneficial.



The rats in government are the ones I figure to poison. You know, the ones who cater to corporate polluters and their exploitation of the workforce.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#320828 - 01/31/20 03:13 AM Re: Boomers have socialism. Why not Millennials? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9833
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
You're joking, right? China buying our "services"?
Not in a million years.


So how many movies and TV shows did you work on that still have overseas sales? That's American IP that people all over the world keep on buying. I know when I was writing software for high speed DSL chips, most of the sales were in Japan. I didn't "make" anything physical, just 0's and 1's. Actually one of the first software jobs I had, way back when, was embedded software for the Japanese HandyPhone chip set. They sold that system all over Asia.

My point is, China does not just buy pork from us. They also buy ideas.

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#320834 - 01/31/20 01:09 PM Re: Boomers have socialism. Why not Millennials? [Re: CPWILL]
Hamish Howl Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 570
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
Originally Posted By: Greger
As the economy gets stranger and stranger we are seeing a smallish movement towards cottage industries and local markets. Small family farms, local breweries, small scale creameries, stitchery and crafting of all sorts. There are countless Americans supplementing their incomes with small businesses. They can service local markets and sell their wares online. Lots of people are transitioning to a simpler life already.

The old ways are proving not to be sustainable.
The rat-race has spun out of control.
It's time to poison the rats.


Great idea. Let's give the government the right to determine who is and is not a productive member of society, and eliminate those it finds net non-beneficial. There's no way Donald Trump abuses that power at all.


Right now, that function is being done by minimum wage call center employees at insurance companies.
_________________________
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

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#320835 - 01/31/20 01:10 PM Re: Boomers have socialism. Why not Millennials? [Re: CPWILL]
Hamish Howl Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 570
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
Yup. Someone decided the government needs to be in charge of those kinds of decisions. So glad we have a government that feels emboldened to stick it's nose into what we do on our own property with that degree of specificity and presumption.


Why not? They feel they can stick their nose into peoples' bedrooms.
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