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#320231 - 01/20/20 07:24 PM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: logtroll]
Hamish Howl Online   content
journeyman

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 570
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: logtroll

Humans individually often have more good than bad in us, but as a species we have always been mindlessly destructive - now more than ever.


Humans are good at being destructive mostly because we're a cooperative species, which to our wiring is "good".

Nobody built the bomb. WE built the bomb.
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#320235 - 01/20/20 07:40 PM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: pdx rick]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10146
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Economic growth... what are the limits - when does it become cancerous?
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To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
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#320247 - 01/20/20 09:12 PM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: pdx rick]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3232
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
It ends when the payment of the debt becomes so huge that the only thing that can be done is to either declare bankruptcy or kill EVERYBODY. At the risk of repeat - we are very close to actually spending more on paying down the debt than on our military or medicare.

Amongst other things this also means that virtually ALL campaign promises are lies and cannot be done. If the Dems do win they will, yet again, be tasked with trying to bail the nation out of yet another Republican financial disaster whilst not blaming them at all and actually allowing them (the Republicans) to claim that they are the party of fiscal responsibility. The horror is that everybody, including the Dems seem to actually believe that one.

If the Dems actually do try to fix it that will mean that they will be forced to raise taxes and that means the Dems will, yet again, get painted as the tax and spend party and they will do absolutely nothing in response to that canard.


Edited by jgw (01/20/20 09:14 PM)

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#320250 - 01/20/20 09:40 PM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: jgw]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10146
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: jgw
It ends when the payment of the debt becomes so huge that the only thing that can be done is to either declare bankruptcy or kill EVERYBODY.

When the cancer eats the host.
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
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#320264 - 01/21/20 01:08 AM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: CPWILL]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42736
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
[... if you like Trump, well, keep doing what got you Trump. If you don't like Trump, maybe reconsider your preference for looking down on the Other. smile It is, after all, a form of bigotry, and it harms your ability to come to rational conclusions flowing from intellectual empathy. People are capable of disagreeing - even strongly! - from good intentions wink.

Fear of America becoming more brown gave us Trump. I have no problem with the browning of America. smile

Old white Rightwingers see elected Congress women like AOC as changing demographics of this country and are scared to lose their white identity. I do not. I'm comfortable being a white American who embraces the browning of America. smile

Trump’s strategy was basically thinly veiled white nationalism topped off with pie-in-the-sky New Deal economics and homoerotic visions of robust, manly men carrying lunch-buckets to jobs at entirely imaginary shipyards and ironworks.

Trump’s luck at winning the electoral lottery was decided by fewer than 77,000 votes spread across three states, and involved such a wildly improbable set of circumstances which is will not be repeated.

In the three years Trump has been president, Trump only appealed to his base, and has not expanded his base. Given the average age of his supporters, many tens of thousands have died off due to old age or have died due to the high incidence of suicide in rural America since Trump was elected.

Trump is a one-term president. If the Republican Party can't do their job in the next few weeks and remove Trump, the American people will in November 2020.

smile
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#320267 - 01/21/20 03:26 AM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: pdx rick]
CPWILL Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/26/19
Posts: 320
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
[... if you like Trump, well, keep doing what got you Trump. If you don't like Trump, maybe reconsider your preference for looking down on the Other. smile It is, after all, a form of bigotry, and it harms your ability to come to rational conclusions flowing from intellectual empathy. People are capable of disagreeing - even strongly! - from good intentions wink.

Fear of America becoming more brown gave us Trump. I have no problem with the browning of America. smile


No, that is the fairy tale that people on the left tell themselves so that they can feel morally superior. It has the effect of causing people on the right to utterly dismiss them when they talk about race, and it has the effect of immunizing actual racists such as the current White House occupant to the charge.

Trump didn't get elected Because Yay Racism (though I'm curious as to why you think so many of his voters, being so afraid of brown people, voted for Obama), he got elected because to enough people in the right places, he was less-awful than Hillary. There are a couple of key drivers of that, and one of them is definitely that the charge of racism was laughingly dismissed where it wasn't considered a badge of honor because they saw that the left liked to claim that anything the left didn't like was racist (for example: See, Above), and so the charge of "racism" was instead interpreted to mean "Democrats are afraid of him because he's a conservative".

You are conflating opposition to your means with the antithesis of your ends.

Quote:
Trump is a one-term president. If the Republican Party can't do their job in the next few weeks and remove Trump, the American people will in November 2020.


Maybe they will. Personally, I think his behavior warrants impeachment, but don't think he'll be removed. As for 2020, well, the key question there (as in 2016) will be who the Democrats nominate to oppose him.


Edited by CPWILL (01/21/20 03:28 AM)
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#320272 - 01/21/20 11:14 AM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: CPWILL]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42736
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
[... if you like Trump, well, keep doing what got you Trump. If you don't like Trump, maybe reconsider your preference for looking down on the Other. smile It is, after all, a form of bigotry, and it harms your ability to come to rational conclusions flowing from intellectual empathy. People are capable of disagreeing - even strongly! - from good intentions wink.

Fear of America becoming more brown gave us Trump. I have no problem with the browning of America. smile


No, that is the fairy tale that people on the left tell themselves so that they can feel morally superior. It has the effect of causing people on the right to utterly dismiss them when they talk about race, and it has the effect of immunizing actual racists such as the current White House occupant to the charge.


America's original sin was steeped in Conservatism. Conservatives are all about racism and bigotry.

Racism and bigotry are not a Democrat or Republican ideology, but racism and bigotry are both 100% Conservative ideologies.

Conservative Democrats called fought a war to keep slavery legal, Liberal Republicans fought a war to keep black Americans free and independent humans.

Conservative Democrats also wrote Jim Crow laws and started the KKK

In 1964 when the Civil Rights Act was signed, Conservative Dixiecrat Democrats switched to the Republican party to spite Lyndon Johnson. Richard Nixon also recruited the Conservative Democrats under his "Southern Strategy" effort.

Conservatism in the United States is the only common thread to pre-1964 racist and bigoted Conservative Democrats and post-1964 racist and bigoted Republicans.

Originally Posted By: CPWILL
People tend to stick with what they know - and the African American demographic is socially and tempermentally probably one of the more conservative blocs within the Democrat party.

Conservatism and its bigotry are why Prop 8 passed in California in 2008 passed in 2008. The very same Afrian American Democratic base that came-out in overwhelming support of voting for America's first black president, also used their vote to deny California same-sex marriage.

Pete Buttigieg polling with African Americans further illustrate this point that conservative bigotry is alive and well in America in 2020.

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#320318 - 01/21/20 08:16 PM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: pdx rick]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3232
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Taxes - the elephant in the room and always a problem. There are, however, some simple fixes. (I went on to spout what was, I suspect, pure baloney) Then I started a the rant below - Anyway ...........

Some claim that our tax code is over 70,000 pages long! Regardless of how long it is its pretty well agreed that is is so complex that NOBODY understands it all. Its like a religion with a holy book, instead we have a tax code with a holy code. In both instances its mysterious, not understood, and has a priest class of accountants that serve and service the mighty national government. Its also completely insane (another one nobody really argues about). There is not a single person, in the entire nation that doesn't hate the system yet our elected, the ones we hire to run the country, is too busy infighting to take time out to do their damned jobs.

We are getting ready for the 2020 elections, politicians are making their pleas. When was the last time you heard even one of them, on either side, say something like; "I want to create a new system of taxes"? Hmmmmmmm? We are talking about the most hated thing in the entire country yet nobody gives a damn. We have problems, we all know it. The two biggest are endless war and taxes (to my own mind). The war thing is sometimes mentioned and the tax thing is never even mentioned! I started this with a silly stack of blarney. I got rid of them - waste of time.

Once the system gets fixed pass a new law that would ban any changes unless 3/4 of each house voted for it.

I probably should have added infrastructure to the problems. Here is a link for the heck of it.

If you google "infrastructure report card" you will also find a lot of others for states, etc. Seems that the asce hasn't put one out since 2017.
https://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/
https://www.asce.org/



Edited by jgw (01/21/20 08:36 PM)

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#320324 - 01/21/20 08:51 PM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: jgw]
Hamish Howl Online   content
journeyman

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 570
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: jgw


Some claim that our tax code is over 70,000 pages long! Regardless of how long it is its pretty well agreed that is is so complex that NOBODY understands it all. Its like a religion with a holy book, instead we have a tax code with a holy code. In both instances its mysterious, not understood, and has a priest class of accountants that serve and service the mighty national government. Its also completely insane (another one nobody really argues about). There is not a single person, in the entire nation that doesn't hate the system yet our elected, the ones we hire to run the country, is too busy infighting to take time out to do their damned jobs.



Thing is, it works.
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#320326 - 01/21/20 08:52 PM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: CPWILL]
Hamish Howl Online   content
journeyman

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 570
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: CPWILL

No, that is the fairy tale that people on the left tell themselves so that they can feel morally superior.


CP, from what I've seen of you both here and at the other board, you don't have a racist bone in your body.

But that is not even remotely close to saying that the right has no racism problems.
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