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#320734 - 01/29/20 02:11 PM Re: Boomers have socialism. Why not Millennials? [Re: CPWILL]
Hamish Howl Offline
newbie

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 378
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: CPWILL

Actually they do - which is why those countries end up having to centrally ration care, and cut their defense budgets to the bone, depending on the United States to pick up their slack.



If everyone is eligible for medical care, you are going to have to wait in line a bit.

"Rationing care" is what happens when you have to decide when to short yourself on insulin.
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#320738 - 01/29/20 05:45 PM Re: Boomers have socialism. Why not Millennials? [Re: Hamish Howl]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   happy
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15038
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Hamish Howl
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
We are mostly a service-based economy now,


Which is basically saying, "Living off of our grandfathers' collected stored labor.


There is no such thing as a modern industrialized western economy that sustains itself solely on "service and services". It has never worked in the past and it won't work now. Nations have to be able to make stuff and its citizens need to be able to buy stuff.
This country's economy cannot be sustained on the fortunes enjoyed by a small handful of wealthy people and hundreds of millions of serfs working the king's garden.

And anyone who thinks this is sustainable is lying to themselves.
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#320739 - 01/29/20 05:52 PM Re: Boomers have socialism. Why not Millennials? [Re: Hamish Howl]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   happy
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15038
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Hamish Howl


If everyone is eligible for medical care, you are going to have to wait in line a bit.


If you have a critical care issue or an emergency you will not wait in line.

Originally Posted By: Hamish Howl

"Rationing care" is what happens when you have to decide when to short yourself on insulin.


And die of severe ketoacidosis at age twenty-seven.
Alec Holt, Type I diabetic, dies because his insulin was unaffordable.

Quote:
Her son, Alec, was a Type 1 diabetic someone who needs to take insulin every day to survive. But turning 26 meant his parents' insurance would no longer cover the cost, shooting his monthly cost for insulin and supplies up to $1,300 per month, according to his mom.

"My son died because he could not afford his insulin," she said.


Stop telling me about twenty-five dollar Walmart insulin because clearly if Alec Holt could benefit from it, his doctor would have prescribed it to him or in the case of the generic, he could have gone there and gotten it himself.

He never would have survived in the days of ordinary cow insulin but the point is, if the kind of isulin he needed to survive is only a luxury for rich people, then the whole defense of our current system shrivels up and blows away like dust in the wind.

Shall we ration breathable air and potable water next? Because all of us need those things to survive. Is the air we breathe and the water we drink a luxury for wealthy people also?

A $1300 a month insulin price tag is the textbook example of what is the matter with our healthcare system today and there is no defense for it whatsoever.

I am sick of hearing about the damage that will be done to the medical industry if we go to single payer, all the handwringing over "lost jobs"...which jobs? Doctors? Will doctors lose their jobs?
Never.

Pharmacy Benefit Managers, a job that NEVER EVEN EXISTED until a few years ago, a job where someone actually does sit on a real life "death panel" and plays God with people's lives.

Yeah sorry, not going to mourn the loss of PBM jobs because a PBM can get another job inside the industry, a job where they can figure out how to best help people instead of playing God with their lives in the name of helping a CEO get a new yacht.

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#320740 - 01/29/20 06:52 PM Re: Boomers have socialism. Why not Millennials? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16210
Loc: Florida
Jeffery, you aint insulin dependent and there's a lot you don't know about getting your hands on it when you can't afford it. I suppose there might have been times you needed cocaine and couldn't afford it. You probably got a little to tide you over from somewhere and knew exactly who to call when you din't have the money.

Trust me, I know something of this. I dunno this kid that let himself die rather than put forth the effort to get insulin. but I know that he could have found help. Hell, I've got enough right now to give a months supply to somebody. Donna used to help me out a little back when I couldn't afford it myself.

Insulin is insulin. It's a human hormone synthasized by the pancreas, there's fast release, medium release, and slow release. It's harder to use the fast release and the slow release is the one that's really stupid expensive.(Levimir) But it ALL works the same. Some just works better. I don't know all the ins and outs of being type one but my type 2 is so severe it might as well be type 1. Without insulin I'd be dead within the month.

Google ""free insulin" and you'll find tons of resources, I've listed them before but apparently you think I'm lying or don't know what I'm talking about. This dickweed kid went off his meds and thought he was f*cking superman and didn't need it. It killed him. It's entirely possible that it wasn't diabetes that killed him. More likely it was toxic masculinity. Real men don't like asking for help.

Life is tough all over. But as CPWILL has assured us, poverty is simply part of the human condition and poverty will kill you if you aren't strong enough or smart enough or lucky enough to survive.

I, and others, have proposed a form of government that alleviates some of the issues and suffering caused by poverty. CP insists that these folks need to just f*cking die and save him some tax money because he's got big plans and they don't include personal poverty or paying taxes to help poor people. He seems terribly concerned that other nations aren't spending enough on war materials and that they are wasting these funds helping the poor and depending on the USA to make war for them.

What the hell kinda way is that to run a government anyway? War is eternal and peace is entirely dependent on it.

War is, in fact, Peace!

Poverty is also wealth in his book I imagine. But if you follow the teachings of Jesus Christ you will be rewarded in heaven with riches beyond your wildest imaginings!

It's kind of an old scam. **Shrugs**
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#320741 - 01/29/20 07:44 PM Re: Boomers have socialism. Why not Millennials? [Re: Greger]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 2870
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
libertarianism works in small doses but adherents tend to exreme and then it fails. Same holds true with the whole batch; Libertarian, Capitalism, Socialism, whatever..... its just the way it is.

Medicare has problems and has had them for quite some time. Too many people abusing the system and the system is having problems nailing them. Also, the money out of paychecks, to pay for it, have been too small to support it for years. I have whined about this, here, for years.

Social security has been fine for years. Then congress got involved and added a pile of stuff there that it was never designed to deal with. Then, on top of that, the congress saw all that money and wanted to mess with that too. All that activity put it at risk and then congress decided, relatively recently, to actually "take charge (loot)" the Social security trust. Unless this stops it will, in the future simply fail.

Oh, Trump is trying to abolish these two things to try and reduce HIS various additions to the national debt. I don't think he actually gives a damn about either one. His base likes the military so he won't dip into that one - yet.

Tax paid healthcare, worldwide, is just fine, thank you.....

What nations are failing insofar as healthcare is concerned?

I have never claimed to be against responsible support of things like healthcare from taxes but its never gonna happen and I believe one of the major factors in that is the word "socialism". I find it interesting that those insisting on using that word are the very people who claim to support it and refuse to not use that word thereby making it very hard to get that stuff done.

This insistence will, in large part, tend to support the re-election of the Jackass, Donald Trump. We have, exhausted the debate about that one. My side, against using "Socialist" are, unfortunately, winning that debate. If Bernie gets the nod it will be, in large part the word as well as scaring the literal s*** out of large groups of people who know how to jerk their legs by not voting for any damned Socialists who want to hugely change and actually destroy THEIR world. All I can say about that is "Nice Going!" now we get another 4 more years of Trump taring the s*** out of everything for Russia!

As far as your not voting if Biden gets the nod is concerned. I am duly impressed. Its obvious that you are determined to insist that Biden is worse than Trump. Hopefully everybody doesn't hold that as reality. I don't personally support him but I will vote for the Democratic nominee, whoever it is and pray they can beat Trump.

One last. If the economy holds I am not convinced ANYBODY can beat trump. I don't think, historically, that any sitting president, running for reelection, with full employment has ever lost an election. There is a simple fact; "JOBS are #1" when it comes to elections and whoever is in charge gets the credit.

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#320743 - 01/29/20 07:51 PM Re: Boomers have socialism. Why not Millennials? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Hamish Howl Offline
newbie

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 378
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: Hamish Howl


If everyone is eligible for medical care, you are going to have to wait in line a bit.


If you have a critical care issue or an emergency you will not wait in line.


I'm aware. I grew up in Canada. Your wait was first triage based, then by age group, then by date applied.

The longest wait I ever had was 3 days, and that was for dental work...But that's anecdotal.

Compare that to "not even getting in line, because you can't pay for it."

Quote:
Originally Posted By: Hamish Howl

"Rationing care" is what happens when you have to decide when to short yourself on insulin.


And die of severe ketoacidosis at age twenty-seven.
Alec Holt, Type I diabetic, dies because his insulin was unaffordable.
Quote:
Her son, Alec, was a Type 1 diabetic someone who needs to take insulin every day to survive. But turning 26 meant his parents' insurance would no longer cover the cost, shooting his monthly cost for insulin and supplies up to $1,300 per month, according to his mom.

"My son died because he could not afford his insulin," she said.


The free market demanded his death.

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#320745 - 01/29/20 08:08 PM Re: Boomers have socialism. Why not Millennials? [Re: Hamish Howl]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16210
Loc: Florida
Quote:
If everyone is eligible for medical care, you are going to have to wait in line a bit.

"Rationing care" is what happens when you have to decide when to short yourself on insulin.


Most people don't need a lot of medical care. Even someone as pathetic and fragile as myself. A few need a huge amount of it. Most just need maintenance and a handful of various prescriptions. Some just gonna f*ckin' die.

So how do we implement this thing without breaking the bank? You can't just flip a switch and "make it so". There aint enough money in the world to do that. But between private insurers, local, county, state and federal programs can all pick up a little of the slack.

I think Bernie mentioned that MFA wouldn't even begin to happen until three years into his presidency. On the centrist side Schumer has been pushing to drop the Medicare enrollment age by five years, then ten.
ACA did a lot to insure millions and with a bit of tweaking it could do more. States are more willing to sign onto Medicare expansion now that Obama's gone and it isn't a racist issue any more.

Slow and steady wins the race as they say.
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#320747 - 01/29/20 08:15 PM Re: Boomers have socialism. Why not Millennials? [Re: Greger]
Hamish Howl Offline
newbie

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 378
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
If everyone is eligible for medical care, you are going to have to wait in line a bit.

"Rationing care" is what happens when you have to decide when to short yourself on insulin.


Most people don't need a lot of medical care. Even someone as pathetic and fragile as myself. A few need a huge amount of it. Most just need maintenance and a handful of various prescriptions. Some just gonna f*ckin' die.

So how do we implement this thing without breaking the bank? You can't just flip a switch and "make it so". There aint enough money in the world to do that. But between private insurers, local, county, state and federal programs can all pick up a little of the slack.

I think Bernie mentioned that MFA wouldn't even begin to happen until three years into his presidency. On the centrist side Schumer has been pushing to drop the Medicare enrollment age by five years, then ten.
ACA did a lot to insure millions and with a bit of tweaking it could do more. States are more willing to sign onto Medicare expansion now that Obama's gone and it isn't a racist issue any more.

Slow and steady wins the race as they say.


If we can maintain 12 carrier fleets and 6400 nuclear weapons, we can take care of some sick people.
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#320749 - 01/29/20 08:30 PM Re: Boomers have socialism. Why not Millennials? [Re: jgw]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16210
Loc: Florida
Quote:
libertarianism works in small doses but adherents tend to exreme and then it fails. Same holds true with the whole batch; Libertarian, Capitalism, Socialism, whatever..... its just the way it is.

Eggs-actly.

Social democracy is a mixed economy. In my mind it's market based but not market controlled. It's certainly not textbook or dictionary socialism nor even a move towards it. Sorry I ignored your wall of text but I thought what you said was imp[ortant and I don't want to type out another wall of text of my own...:)
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#320750 - 01/29/20 08:32 PM Re: Boomers have socialism. Why not Millennials? [Re: Hamish Howl]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16210
Loc: Florida
Quote:
If we can maintain 12 carrier fleets and 6400 nuclear weapons, we can take care of some sick people.


Ya think?
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