Current Topics
When police join a community, great things happen
by Greger
01:07 AM
An unexpected cure for COVID-19?
by pondering_it_all
12:36 AM
Burn and Destroy
by perotista
12:36 AM
covid-19 cure
by pondering_it_all
11:06 PM
RoundTable - SPRING 2020
by logtroll
09:59 PM
The Maximum Wage
by logtroll
09:16 PM
First Bernie Sanders Thread 2020
by logtroll
01:23 PM
Is it too soon to be talking 2020?
by perotista
11:38 AM
A Thought Experiment about COVID-19
by pondering_it_all
05:48 AM
The CFO Act
by jgw
06/03/20 07:16 PM
The Far-Right's Civil War aka "boogaloo"
by pondering_it_all
06/03/20 06:18 PM
Anonymous dumps a treasure trove of docs
by Greger
06/02/20 04:47 PM
Edward Snowden Interview
by danarhea
06/01/20 03:45 AM
The Unmasking of Michael Flynn
by Irked
05/31/20 05:30 PM
Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid
by Greger
05/30/20 07:21 PM
Trump may be ahead!
by rporter314
05/29/20 01:29 PM
Is there a free market solution for the pandemic and economic collapse?
by Greger
05/25/20 08:59 PM
Genius: how to make of a surgical mask, an N95-equivalent
by GreatNewsTonight
05/25/20 03:51 AM
The Way We Were
by Jeffery J. Haas
05/25/20 12:46 AM
What's for dinner?
by GreatNewsTonight
05/24/20 08:18 PM
Forum Stats
6292 Members
60 Forums
16922 Topics
300281 Posts

Max Online: 294 @ 12/06/17 12:57 AM
Google Adsense
Page 2 of 13 < 1 2 3 4 ... 12 13 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#317432 - 10/28/19 02:43 AM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: pdx rick]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: jgw
...just another Republican economic disaster that they will leave for the Democrats to clean up.

Isn't that always the case? Dems are always fixing Republican messes. Hmm

Every economic downturn in the US for the past 120 years has happened on a Republcian's watch. smile
Here is list of economic downturns in American history. History of Recessions
Here is a list of which party controlled Congress from 1855-2017 Party control of Congress from 1855-2017
In the last 120 years there have been 13 recessions. During that time the Democrats have had control of the House of Representative 10 times and the Senate 8 times with control of both houses 8 times. That means that the majority of times there has been an recession it was on the the Democrats, not the Republicans, watch. So, no it is not the case that Democrats are always cleaning up a Republican mess. Not when a majority of the recessions happened when the Democrats controlled Congress.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

Top
#317436 - 10/28/19 02:52 AM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: Senator Hatrack]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7209
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
The problem with tax cuts is the idea that by reducing our government's revenue that will force it cut spending.
Not the concept Republicans and Mr Trump promoted. They maintained that by cutting taxes there would be an increase in revenue which would thereby pay for the increase in spending. I whole idea of trickle down is there will be increased economic growth which will offset momentary shortfalls in revenue. No where in the current administration is anyone talking about cutting the budget. What they want to do is cut some programs and transfer the monies to programs they where they want to spend money.


I hope you didn't buy into this nonsense .... o sorry too late ... I see the hook caught in your lip
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

Top
#317437 - 10/28/19 02:53 AM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 9848
Loc: North San Diego County
Sure, the House has to originate all spending bills, the Senate has to sign, and then the President has to agree. or else Congress has to overcome a veto. But the President sets the broad agenda, and presents that to the public.

Or at least that's the way it's supposed to work. The Supreme Court just backed the President's right to take money Congress allocated for one thing and do something else with it. So all bets are off. If you strip the House Power of the Purse, then all they can do about the President diverting money is to impeach him.

Top
#317438 - 10/28/19 03:02 AM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: Senator Hatrack]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7209
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Senator ... your comment is ludicrous.

No one really knows why economies expand or contract. If they did I would be making millions off that knowledge. To say any particular party in majority directs the economy to expand or contract is nonsensical. If they had such magical powers they would always expand the economy. I mean really ... this is commonsense.

The previous comments were about Republican tax abuses while in power, which has only minor impact on GDP. This is the scenario ... Republicans pass a tax cut ... revenues fall ... budget deficits result .... Democrats have to raise taxes to pay for budget. Now that you know what the context really is, do some research report back with the results. I seem to recollect in the minor context of just budget deficits, it is about evenly distributed between Democrats and Republicans.

But hey ... if you are all about destroying America ... vote for voodoo economics
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

Top
#317442 - 10/28/19 03:27 AM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: rporter314]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Quote:
The problem with tax cuts is the idea that by reducing our government's revenue that will force it cut spending.
Not the concept Republicans and Mr Trump promoted. They maintained that by cutting taxes there would be an increase in revenue which would thereby pay for the increase in spending. I whole idea of trickle down is there will be increased economic growth which will offset momentary shortfalls in revenue. No where in the current administration is anyone talking about cutting the budget. What they want to do is cut some programs and transfer the monies to programs they where they want to spend money.


I hope you didn't buy into this nonsense .... o sorry too late ... I see the hook caught in your lip
In the sentence that rporter314 quoted I made a mistake. My mistake was I didn't say that the reduction in revenue from tax cuts is temporary. History has shown that when taxes are cut in the long run they do increase our government's revenue and that there is economic growth when people get to keep more of the money they've earned. The problem is and always will be that our government spends nearly $2 for every $1 it collects in taxes, regardless of who controls Congress or who our President is.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

Top
#317444 - 10/28/19 03:31 AM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: Senator Hatrack]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42774
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: jgw
...just another Republican economic disaster that they will leave for the Democrats to clean up.

Isn't that always the case? Dems are always fixing Republican messes. Hmm

Every economic downturn in the US for the past 120 years has happened on a Republcian's watch. smile
Here is list of economic downturns in American history. History of Recessions
Here is a list of which party controlled Congress from 1855-2017 Party control of Congress from 1855-2017

Sorry bud, but the President signs spending bills. I get that you can't handle the truth. Hmm
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#317448 - 10/28/19 04:10 AM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: pdx rick]
Senator Hatrack Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1655
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: jgw
...just another Republican economic disaster that they will leave for the Democrats to clean up.

Isn't that always the case? Dems are always fixing Republican messes. Hmm

Every economic downturn in the US for the past 120 years has happened on a Republcian's watch. smile
Here is list of economic downturns in American history. History of Recessions
Here is a list of which party controlled Congress from 1855-2017 Party control of Congress from 1855-2017

Sorry bud, but the President signs spending bills. I get that you can't handle the truth. Hmm
The truth that you can't handle is that whoever is our President, a Democrat or a Republican, the influence they have on the budget bill that Congress writes is extremely limited. More often than not when the budget bill, if Congress does pass one, lands on our President's desk he has the choice of signing it or to veto it. If a President vetoes the budget bill then our government shuts down. Most Presidents don't want our government to shut down so whether or not they like the budget bill they sign it. To blame any President for a recesssion because he signed a budget bill is naive.
_________________________
The state can never straighten the crooked timber of humanity.
I'm a conservative because I question authority.
Conservative Revolutionary

Top
#317466 - 10/28/19 03:49 PM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: Senator Hatrack]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7209
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
The problem is and always will be that our government spends nearly $2 for every $1 it collects in taxes, regardless of who controls Congress or who our President is.
First that is not true. If that were the case we would have a $4.5T deficit this year, instead we have about $1T deficit. There is an obvious statement which I will not type.

Regardless of who controls Congress etc. How is it you can recognize that and yet want to assign blame to political parties when they occupy either the WH or Congress for the economy etc? Sounds more like some conservative talking point than it does reality.


Regarding your ideological belief in voodoo economics here is the Tax Policy Center analysis. I would have included CBO analysis but it was spread out. I could have included right wing analysis but they typically only addressed the first part of the TPC analysis by simply saying revenues increased. Of course this is only for Trump's Tax Cut and did not included long term analysis which everyone now predicts will be worse than originally predicted.
Originally Posted By: taxpolicycenter
While some TCJA supporters are touting that nominal revenues were higher in fiscal year (FY) 2018 than in FY2017, that comparison does not address the question of TCJA’s effects. Nominal revenues rise because of inflation and economic growth. Adjusted for inflation, total revenues fell from FY2017 to FY2018. Adjusted for the size of the economy, they fell even more.


There are a lot of problems with your statements.

BTW before you go ballistic on some partisan crapola, it is true and valid tax cuts do increase some things, however it does not do what people who believe in tax cuts believe it will do. Tax cuts have historically always come in far short of predictions and never achieve the results predicted. Even Enterprise Institute is predicting loong term increases in debt and deficits while assuming 4% GDP for the long term. That does not sound good considering current predictions for for an economic contraction in the near future. Think of the deficits then. Think 2008.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

Top
#317469 - 10/28/19 06:45 PM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: pdx rick]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3247
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Interesting............. People are always talking about how much Obama added to the debt and he added A LOT! https://www.thebalance.com/national-debt-under-obama-3306293 On the other hand we were losing jobs bigtime. In 2008 we lost 2.6 million job alone. That went on for a while. Obama had to bail out the banks as well as get the economy going again. Trump inherited a climbing economy, which had been basically climbing out of a hole for 8 years. There are some that claim that we are living off, right now, the economy that Obama started when he took office. Anyway, Trump, and the Republican party, are going to win the race to be the greatest spendthrift of all time. I am not saying that the Dems haven't also contributed.

The simple fact, however, is that we gotta get it all under control and we are certainly not even vaguely there now. If we don't we will, eventually, have a debt to large that our interest payments alone will be greater that we can possibly sustain. When that happens we will default. If we do default the American dollar will be worthless and we will be in serious trouble.

My problem is that the Dems are promising everything. Bernie, for instance, wants to spend something like 30 trillion dollars (that we do not have) and that's just for just his healthcare thing. Warren isn't too far back from Bernie. Basically, if the Dems do win, they are not going to be able to do much more than try to control the debt. It will be interesting times.

If the Republicans win I can't even imagine the mess we will be in and how bad it can get under the most spendthrift group of politicians in the history of the nation. So much for the myth of Republican fiscal conservatism, that one is just gone.

It would, in other words, be very nice if both parties stopped the baloney and started to address our financial woes. The Republicans, I suspect, don't dare. The Dems, however, can and certainly should.

Top
#317480 - 10/29/19 02:45 AM Re: US budget deficit hits $984 billion, highest in 7 years [Re: jgw]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16861
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Basically, if the Dems do win, they are not going to be able to do much more than try to control the debt.


Eliminate the Trump Tax Cuts and you'll go a long way towards controlling the debt.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

Top
Page 2 of 13 < 1 2 3 4 ... 12 13 >

Who's Online
1 registered (Irked), 18 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Superfly, GreatNewsTonight, danarhea, RoughDraft274, CPWILL
6292 Registered Users
A2