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#321564 - 02/15/20 09:26 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3465
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I am not sure about what you are answering.

Apparently you don't understand why I believe something Trump said? I believe absolutely NOTHING Trump says. He lies 80% of the time, in incredibly ignorant, and I refuse to actually listen to him at all!

I also have absolutely no idea how one "honors" the jackass trump.

I guess I am an independent. I vote for the best I can find. Most of the time that would be a Democrat but I have strayed, over the years. I did NOT vote for Trump and will vote for whoever runs as a Democrat this time around as I want that Jackass gone!

I am not sure about Trump crying COMMIE all the time, I suspect he also mixes in, a lot, "SOCIALIST". I do, however, believe that comes from the simple fact of the Democrats constantly using the word "socialist".

OH, my wife signed me up as a Democrat years ago. Right now half my email is from Democrats begging for money <sigh>

Many currently claiming to be a patriot, etc., as far as I can tell, are those who believe they REALLY understand America. Some of those would be White Supremacists, anti-vaxxers, etc. who tend to march around a lot waving flags (American, and oddities). There is a kindofa standard setup. Normal folks might wave a flag or two, the really serious jerks tend to have EVERYBODY waving a flag. Just watch a hundred march and EVERYBODY had a flag. It was almost very exiting.

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#321565 - 02/15/20 09:30 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
I am hearing so much talk about how Democrats have to stay away from anyone who might have the slightest deviation from "moderate" because "it might frighten the independents"...or the other excuse: "it might frighten the moderates".

It's being said in the media, it's been bandied about in discussion forums, etc.

First I posed one question, got no answer. The first question was, "If we do elect a moderate, who are the so called "moderates" in the GOP they're supposed to work with, where ARE these so called "moderate" Republicans?"
Now I am asking "Where are these independents and what makes them feel so superior that they call themselves independents?"

That's not a slam, it's an honest question.
If a person is independent, and yet they are frightened by someone who is a wee bit different from the rest of the slate of candidates, then they're not all that independent.
I say that because it makes that "independent" sound much more like one of the moderates.

So to me, all the talk about independents and moderates sounds like a bunch of undefined buzz words.

The moderates and the independents are both bringing a lot of pressure on people to avoid making any kind of a choice that might scare them off.
I think it is perfectly legitimate to want to know who we should expect to work with on the other side, because from where I sit, all I see is "Party of Trump".

The Republican Party IS the Party of Trump now.
They are not moderate and they are not independent, they are neither.
So that has a very profound effect, one would think, on the choices we are going to make.

Personally, I like Bernie Sanders, but I am realistic enough to understand that, like any other candidate, there is no guarantee.
I am buoyed by his emergence as a lead with great numbers so far, but it is early yet, so this field could shake out any number of ways in the coming months.
That informs ME that I need to have alternate choices.

And for that reason, I am feeling stymied by all the pressure to select "moderates" because after watching Obama the Moderate get crushed for eight years, I just don't see the value in choosing a "moderate".
No one on the other side sees our moderates as anything but target practice.

And we should all take that very much into account.
I hope that makes more sense.
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
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#321567 - 02/15/20 09:42 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Here's a popular moderate talking point:
"If we elect Bernie, business will abandon the US markets, manufacturing, services, etc. Jobs will plummet and there will be mass loss of wealth and value, everyone will feel the hit."

Oct. 26 and Oct. 29 of last year (weekend in between) Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos' stock lost $19.2 billion over those two trading days.
TWENTY BILLION DOLLARS.

Did YOU GAIN any of that lost wealth?
Did you become more affluent?
Was your earning potential personally impacted?

I can point to similar consecutive trading days where companies like Amazon GAINED tens of billions.

Again, did you become more affluent? Was your earning potential personally impacted?

The moderates seem to think that all our "precious billionaires" might pull a "JOHN GALT" (Oooooo be very scared!) and punish us.
Like we're not being punished now?
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

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#321569 - 02/15/20 09:47 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10147
Loc: North San Diego County
The Republicans have gone to great efforts to demonize "liberal" "centrist", "moderate", etc. to be coequal with socialist and communist. So what's the difference? They freak out at the idea of a "Democrat" winning the presidency. I suspect they all know they have done some very bad and un-American things and when the power swings back to Democrats, they will have to answer for those things. The House of Cards collapses.

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#321605 - 02/16/20 09:38 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3465
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
The liberal, centrist, moderate thing is interesting. What the pollsters have found that none of that makes any difference at all. In my local paper the Sunday question was, what president did you like best. there were 7 answers. The first was "Kennedy and Trump". My first response was "HUH?" Then it dawned on me. The person who answered wasn't talking about politics at all! She actually answered the question, She 'liked' Kennedy and she 'liked' Trump. I suspect this is how most people vote too. They vote for who they 'like'. first comes the political blather and most listen and discount the whole thing. People vote for who they like and, when voting for president tend to put a lot of their decision on how things are. Right now they are pretty good! People talk about the homeless, the poor that are not paid enough, etc. but, still - they vote for who they like!

Bernie's problem, basically, is that he is not real likeable. He also says that youth are voting more now which, it turns out is a flat out lie. so, Bernie also lies? This might be a big deal if most of them have the same problem one way or another.

Your thought that politicians have to answer for whatever is also not quite true. That only happens if a particular voter, making a decision, has considered anything but whether he/she likes the candidate. If they do not, and want to justify, they might, otherwise they just don't care. I have heard a bunch of stuff that tends to infer that they have faith in the mythic American Voting Public. Really, REALLY? Sorry, I just don't buy it.

Just looked this one over. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The simple fact is that politics rarely make a whole lot of sense and tends to move around a lot. Right and wrong are a big part of politics and the problem there is that Right and wrong, in any other conversation might make sense. When dealing with polics, however, right and wrong are moving targets no matter which side.

Just saying........

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#321608 - 02/16/20 10:04 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: jgw]
Greger Online   content


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17068
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Bernie's problem, basically, is that he is not real likeable.


Hillary already used that line and it flopped. Turns out an awful lot of people like Bernie. He's been climbing in the polls ever since.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#321609 - 02/16/20 10:14 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: jgw]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356

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#321610 - 02/16/20 10:16 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: pondering_it_all]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
Leftists political economists, politicians, supporters have been pointing to the economic realities for years.
The far right, as in times past, copies the language of the left.

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#321623 - 02/17/20 07:28 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: Greger]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3465
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Hillary may have said it first but I believe it. He doesn't inspire me and he comes off as an angry old man. I am not alone on this one. Its just the way it is.

this is yet another one of them things that comes under the heading of "we will all know eventually".

I have, incidentally, voted for somebody I really didn't like a couple of times. I can't imagine why anybody would care but, I guess, its somehow important to some.


Edited by jgw (02/17/20 07:29 PM)

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#321624 - 02/17/20 07:30 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: chunkstyle]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3465
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
then there are them facts. I remember when Hillary was winning, according to the polls, right up to when she wasn't any more.

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