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#320951 - 02/03/20 02:04 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: pdx rick]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6517
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
... the Dems don't care about their current voting base because they are true blue and don't really care about anything but subsidies and handouts...

That asinine canard is all you old tired Boomer Conservatives have. That gum has lost its flavor. It really has.

smile


Why do you assume that is an insult? I am just stating the facts, and as proof all one has to do is look at a voting map. The population centers are blue, the rest of the state is usually red. The reasons are obvious, cities need more infrastructure and the ability to get it from the government means that handouts are available. Only a fool doesn't take advantage of the largess of free money. The fact that I do not advocate for it doesn't mean that I do not understand why it happens.

Tim
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

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#320952 - 02/03/20 02:08 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10285
Loc: One of the Mexicos
I just read that Trump’s idea of tightening up on disability fraud is projected to save a massive $2.6 billion over ten years, and will only cost $1.8 billion to administer.

There’s lots of meat on that bone to gnaw, but first I’d like to get a handle on what the centrist and conservative positions on it would be?
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#320953 - 02/03/20 02:17 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: logtroll]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6517
Loc: USA
Let's look at your leading candidates:
Every one of the leading Dem candidates what large increases in Medicare. I must admit that if Lizzy were to actually get elected, in a headdress and feathers, and implement Medicare for all, I would retire the next day, but it doesn't mean that it would be the right thing to do. It just means that I am Republican enough to take advantage of every government program available.

Your leading candidates, except for maybe Biden, all want large increases in Social Security. I am not sure where Joe stands on that, because he really isn't sure. Once he gets a whiff of which way the wind is blowing, he will form his opinion in sand.

Look, the first thing that JFK did upon getting elected POTUS, was to cut taxes. There used to be blue dog Dems who actually held fiscally conservative views. Not NO politician, Republican or Dem, are fiscally conservative. The only difference is that Reps with throw the voting public a tax cut bone every now and then. The Dems just take all the money they can beg, borrow or steal and spend it on any special interest of the hour. The system is F@c$ed right now and nobody in either party wants to fix it. But there are no moderate Dems, never mind conservative Dems, in the House, just lemmings willing to follow Nancy down the path to oblivion because she is the best politician. The Republicans aren't much better, but hell, at least we have Rand Paul.

Tim
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

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#320954 - 02/03/20 02:17 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: Ma_Republican]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10285
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
I am just stating the facts, and as proof all one has to do is look at a voting map. The population centers are blue, the rest of the state is usually red. The reasons are obvious, cities need more infrastructure and the ability to get it from the government means that handouts are available.

WOW! I never would have recognized that fact on my own.

Maybe that’s why I need you to explain about centrists and conservatives.
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#320955 - 02/03/20 02:23 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: Ma_Republican]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10285
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
Let's look at your leading candidates:
Every one of the leading Dem candidates what large increases in Medicare.

It’s my understanding that they want even larger decreases in insurance premiums. As a dyed in the wool pragmatist, I like that math.
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

Top
#320956 - 02/03/20 02:39 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: jgw]
perotista Online   content
journeyman

Registered: 09/05/19
Posts: 726
Playing to one's base during the primaries is a given. But in the general one needs to move toward the middle. History shows that on average those who identify themselves as Republicans and Democrats vote for their party's candidate 90% of the time regardless of who that candidate is.

There are times during a general election where candidates care too much about their base and fail to attract the independent voter ALA Hillary Clinton. But she had a tough job of uniting her party, retrieving, placating angry Sanders voters.

After the gaining the nomination I would say in order.
1 uniting your base
2 making sure you have or gain the full support of independents which lean toward you party. History shows on average independent leans vote for the party they lean toward roughly 75% of the time.
3 Try to attract the pure or true independent voter which have no leans. These pure/true independents swing wildly from one party to the next. One never knows which way they'll go. A true wildcard in any election. Their reason for voting for who they do also varies wildly from election to election. This last group usually makes up 6-10% in any election.

The electorate is made up of the following, taking Gallup's margin of error of plus or minus 3 points into consideration.

Those who affiliate or identify with the two major parties 55-60% of the total electorate. Independents who lean toward one party or the other 30-35% and pure or true independents 6-10%. These numbers are dynamic and change constantly, but usually from month to month remain within the perimeters above.
_________________________
It's high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first instead of their political party. For way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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#320957 - 02/03/20 02:40 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: Ma_Republican]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10285
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
Your leading candidates, except for maybe Biden, all want large increases in Social Security.

I hadn't heard that one. How to they plan to pay for it, by removing the taxable income caps on rich people?

I agree, it would be very unfair to take more money from rich people for the unnecessary purpose of preventing the elderly from living in poverty. The rich people really need that money for their own comfort and security.
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

Top
#320958 - 02/03/20 03:03 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: Ma_Republican]
Hamish Howl Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 608
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
Originally Posted By: Greger
I haven't seen any political ads.

I've heard that DNC members are having a quiet conversation about re-instating the superdelegate rules they changed after 2016. Because Sanders might win and they need to stop him one way or another.
The voters cannot be allowed to decide!

They've changed the debate rules so that Bloomburg will be allowed to buy his way in.

I lied about political ads...Boomburg's face popped up on my phone this morning.

Oh...and Democrats are looking at a pretty good chance of a brokered convention where no candidate has enough delegates to win the nomination.

We fix'n to see some serious shenanigans going on within the Democratic Party to completely divide the voters. Just like 2016.

Then they gonna blame the lefties when they lose.

Ya'll hide and watch! See if I'm wrong! Hmm


You assume that there are centrist and conservative Dems, there are none.

My children both just bought houses. When they started to listen to politics, they were concerned that nobody was protecting their best interests. I admit, I failed to bring them up as Republicans and I will forever be ashamed of that, but they are bot really bright and they are beginning to see the truth. Both parties are looking to hook voters, the Dems don't care about their current voting base because they are true blue and don't really care about anything but subsidies and handouts. The Republicans don't care about their base either, but their policies are more neutral and have a positive affect on anybody who has invested or has a 401K.

The left is the left and trying to prove that they are lefter than the other candidate. The right has no competitors, Trump is the current champion and will remain so until he finishes his second term. That Trump is a moron doesn't enter the equation, because who do you really want overseeing your life, somebody who has their fingers into every aspect of it, or somebody who knows your are there, but can't really be bothered making sure that you are toeing the party line?

Have a great day and a better tomorrow,

Tim


You seem to exist solely as a collection of right wing talking points concerning the left wing.
_________________________
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

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#320959 - 02/03/20 03:04 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: Ma_Republican]
Hamish Howl Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 608
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
... the Dems don't care about their current voting base because they are true blue and don't really care about anything but subsidies and handouts...

That asinine canard is all you old tired Boomer Conservatives have. That gum has lost its flavor. It really has.

smile


Why do you assume that is an insult? I am just stating the facts, and as proof all one has to do is look at a voting map. The population centers are blue, the rest of the state is usually red. The reasons are obvious, cities need more infrastructure and the ability to get it from the government means that handouts are available. Only a fool doesn't take advantage of the largess of free money. The fact that I do not advocate for it doesn't mean that I do not understand why it happens.

Tim


This would normally be the time to bring up the fact that red states tend to operate in the red at the expense of blue states, but these are not normal times, so I'm not going to do that.
_________________________
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

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#320963 - 02/03/20 04:01 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: Hamish Howl]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10285
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Where did Ma_R go? We were just getting some interesting topics on the table to discuss.
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

Top
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