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#320964 - 02/03/20 05:08 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: Hamish Howl]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Hamish Howl


You seem to exist solely as a collection of right wing talking points concerning the left wing.


We used to have a large collection of folks who would copy/paste RW talking points, thinking that's what debate is. I guess we eventually wore a lot of them down.

But notice how when you get a con who CAN debate, it gets interesting?
Because it is interesting. Keeps me honest, that's all I know.

How much mileage can one get out of "libtards are all poopyheads"?

As for MaR's assertion that large population centers generally go blue because they need infrastructure and spending on services, of course!
What do you expect large cities to do, hold bake sales and charge sidewalk tolls the moment you leave your apartment?

Every single time an entire state, or even a large city, tries to do the libertarian "drown government in the bathtub" thing, the tax base gets pissed off because quality of life in the city takes a steep nosedive.

I get that it's a time honored American tradition to bitch and moan about paying taxes, but we tried running large cities without them, and it was an endless series of disasters, epidemics, crime waves, garbage piling up everywhere, homes and businesses burning and starting large fire conflagrations that consumed entire neighborhoods, buildings collapsing, poisoned water, you simply cannot run a decent size city without a healthy tax base.

It's been tried before. It didn't work.

There's a collection of urban tax havens in some Brazilian cities.
They're called "favelas", and folks in favelas NEVER pay taxes...except they do pay, and pay and pay and pay, just not to the city. Instead, they wind up paying "protection" to the drug lords who run the favelas.
So you see, even when you eliminate taxation altogether in an urban environment, someone eventually comes around and demands you pay up anyway.
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#320967 - 02/03/20 06:38 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Hamish Howl Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 608
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas

How much mileage can one get out of "libtards are all poopyheads"?


Based on DP and Facebook, the answer is "all the mileage," because there isn't actually a debate, just people looking for in-group validation.


Quote:
Every single time an entire state, or even a large city, tries to do the libertarian "drown government in the bathtub" thing, the tax base gets pissed off because quality of life in the city takes a steep nosedive.


Yeah, that's even worse than it appears.

https://www.opb.org/news/article/polk-co...mergency-calls/

Quote:
I get that it's a time honored American tradition to bitch and moan about paying taxes,


It's 240 years of incessant whining by people who can't connect "paying the bills" with "any level of civilization at all."
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#320968 - 02/03/20 06:42 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: jgw]
Hamish Howl Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 608
Loc: Tucson, AZ
From the link I posted, I give you the libertarian paradise:

Quote:
“Cuts will occur this year, and again next year. There is no stable funding right now based on our tax rate; due to that, employees are going where there’s more stability,” Wolfe said.

Due to the short staffing, sometimes the sheriff himself responds when the officer on duty calls and requests back up. Wolfe says effective on March 1, no one will be scheduled to provide patrol for four hours every day, and he will only authorize overtime during those hours in response to 911 calls involving an assault with a documented injury.

“If there is a traffic crash that is blocking the highway, we’re not responding. If there is a theft in progress, we’re not responding. I cannot pay deputies to come out of bed in the middle of the night to respond to calls when I don’t have the funding,” Wolf says.
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#320970 - 02/03/20 06:56 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: Ma_Republican]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3465
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I thought I might add that not once have the Dems taken over from the Republicans without inheriting a financial disaster. Obama, for instance, inherited the worst recession since the depression of 1920.

As a proud Republican I can see that you may have missed that one and every other one of Dems winning against Republicans. Kinda says something about the grand plans of the Republicans. Right now they are running historic deficits and apparently adding 1 TRILLION to the debt every year. I know, Obama added to the debt - the difference is that he, basically, saved the entire economy from absolute failure. Anyway, next time you claim Republican fiscal responsibility be careful!

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#320972 - 02/03/20 07:16 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: jgw]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6517
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: jgw
I thought I might add that not once have the Dems taken over from the Republicans without inheriting a financial disaster. Obama, for instance, inherited the worst recession since the depression of 1920.

As a proud Republican I can see that you may have missed that one and every other one of Dems winning against Republicans. Kinda says something about the grand plans of the Republicans. Right now they are running historic deficits and apparently adding 1 TRILLION to the debt every year. I know, Obama added to the debt - the difference is that he, basically, saved the entire economy from absolute failure. Anyway, next time you claim Republican fiscal responsibility be careful!


I have been arguing this for almost 30 years here at CHB, it isn't fiscal conservancy that people want, it is fiscal spending, as high and mighty as possible, as long as they agree with where the money is getting spent. The fact that Trump, who at various times has been a Democrat and a Republican (but always a moron), is spending at ridiculous levels, doesn't mean that the Dems wouldn't howl if he decided to reduce government spending. They would cut that money in different places in the budget and spend it on something that they like, just like the Republicans do.

It is the same animal, just different colors with different priorities. The budget deficits are so large right now, that thinking that they will ever be reduced is a fairy tale. There will be algebraic gymnastics in future budgets that claim they will reduce the deficit by 2% over 10 years, but we know that will never happen. Both sides suck, nothing can be done about it.
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“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
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#320973 - 02/03/20 07:26 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: Ma_Republican]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10285
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
The budget deficits are so large right now, that thinking that they will ever be reduced is a fairy tale. There will be algebraic gymnastics in future budgets that claim they will reduce the deficit by 2% over 10 years, but we know that will never happen.

I may have missed it, but how do tax cuts figure into your algebraic gymnastics? According to one point of view, it's really stupid to cut back on income when you are buying stuff and need to make payments.
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#320974 - 02/03/20 07:32 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10285
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Let me put that into a simpler question: why would anyone cut taxes when we are running increasing deficits?
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#320975 - 02/03/20 07:40 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: Hamish Howl]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Hamish Howl


Yeah, that's even worse than it appears.

https://www.opb.org/news/article/polk-co...mergency-calls/



Looks like they succeeded in drowning that thar gubmint in the bathtub alright.
_________________________
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com

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#320976 - 02/03/20 07:54 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Hamish Howl Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 608
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: Hamish Howl


Yeah, that's even worse than it appears.

https://www.opb.org/news/article/polk-co...mergency-calls/



Looks like they succeeded in drowning that thar gubmint in the bathtub alright.


I'm sure it will work out just fine for everyone involved.
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#320977 - 02/03/20 07:58 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: logtroll]
Hamish Howl Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 608
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
The budget deficits are so large right now, that thinking that they will ever be reduced is a fairy tale. There will be algebraic gymnastics in future budgets that claim they will reduce the deficit by 2% over 10 years, but we know that will never happen.

I may have missed it, but how do tax cuts figure into your algebraic gymnastics? According to one point of view, it's really stupid to cut back on income when you are buying stuff and need to make payments.


Very much this.

In a high tech society, you are going to spend or you are going to take immediate downgrades in your standard of living. So slashing revenues isn't really a sane option.

It is also worth mentioning that I spent quite a bit of time working on taxes last month, and the sorts of allowances made to working and middle class people took a beating, while life just got way easier on rich folks and C corporations.

Of course what the C corporations did was massive stock buybacks. Investment wasn't really a thing.
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