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#320981 - 02/03/20 08:23 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: Hamish Howl]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
It's the Despair Quotient!
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 15728
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: Hamish Howl
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
The budget deficits are so large right now, that thinking that they will ever be reduced is a fairy tale. There will be algebraic gymnastics in future budgets that claim they will reduce the deficit by 2% over 10 years, but we know that will never happen.

I may have missed it, but how do tax cuts figure into your algebraic gymnastics? According to one point of view, it's really stupid to cut back on income when you are buying stuff and need to make payments.


Very much this.

In a high tech society, you are going to spend or you are going to take immediate downgrades in your standard of living. So slashing revenues isn't really a sane option.

It is also worth mentioning that I spent quite a bit of time working on taxes last month, and the sorts of allowances made to working and middle class people took a beating, while life just got way easier on rich folks and C corporations.

Of course what the C corporations did was massive stock buybacks. Investment wasn't really a thing.



For the enlightenment of all, please remind everyone why big corps love stock buybacks. It's a truly perverted reason...well....not for them but for anyone else.
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#320982 - 02/03/20 08:25 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Hamish Howl Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 608
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: Hamish Howl
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
The budget deficits are so large right now, that thinking that they will ever be reduced is a fairy tale. There will be algebraic gymnastics in future budgets that claim they will reduce the deficit by 2% over 10 years, but we know that will never happen.

I may have missed it, but how do tax cuts figure into your algebraic gymnastics? According to one point of view, it's really stupid to cut back on income when you are buying stuff and need to make payments.


Very much this.

In a high tech society, you are going to spend or you are going to take immediate downgrades in your standard of living. So slashing revenues isn't really a sane option.

It is also worth mentioning that I spent quite a bit of time working on taxes last month, and the sorts of allowances made to working and middle class people took a beating, while life just got way easier on rich folks and C corporations.

Of course what the C corporations did was massive stock buybacks. Investment wasn't really a thing.



For the enlightenment of all, please remind everyone why big corps love stock buybacks. It's a truly perverted reason...well....not for them but for anyone else.


It's simple. The act of buying back the stock drives the stock price up. The board is composed of majority shareholders who benefit from the rising price of their stock.

Of course, it screws everyone else up, most especially the company itself (which becomes under capitalized by definition), but the big boys make some big $$$.
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#320990 - 02/03/20 09:35 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 10147
Loc: North San Diego County
It doesn't hurt everybody. In particular if some (usually elderly) individual owns that stock say in a retirement portfolio, then they benefit by the share price rising if they sell it. You have to keep in mind that every stock transaction has both a buyer and a seller. One of those may be the company of the stock, or maybe not.

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#321012 - 02/04/20 05:32 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: logtroll]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6517
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
The budget deficits are so large right now, that thinking that they will ever be reduced is a fairy tale. There will be algebraic gymnastics in future budgets that claim they will reduce the deficit by 2% over 10 years, but we know that will never happen.

I may have missed it, but how do tax cuts figure into your algebraic gymnastics? According to one point of view, it's really stupid to cut back on income when you are buying stuff and need to make payments.


There is a theory that by cutting taxes, the population has more money to spend, increasing tax revenue. In theory it is an elegant assumption, in reality it doesn't really work. People are usually inclined to pay their bills, pay their kids college bills, or go to the casino.

In my opinion, every tax cut is a pay raise, and I will take every pay raise that I can get. The Dems refuse to pay down the deficit, the Reps refuse to not keep increasing the deficit, however the Reps will sometimes grow a pair and introduce a tax cut. The last one got me almost $200.00 a month in extra money. Nobody is going to pay down the deficit, nobody in government cares about the deficit, nobody in the private sector wants to think about the deficit.

Mr. Trump, PLEASE push another middle class tax cut through! I would really like another $200 per month in my paycheck. Given the choice of taking care of my family, or some theoretical struggling immigrant who needs a subsidy to make it, I choose my family. Hell, given the choice between the immigrant and take out Chinese food, I choose Chinese food. That is Democrating, my vote is money in my pocket, if I lose the popular vote, and I can't impeach somebody to change the outcome of the popular vote, then I guess I forfeit my Chinese.

But, I will bet on the Chinese food option. People like it when taxes are cut. Charity starts at home and the government never really wants to help you as much as it wants to help itself. Besides, who doesn't like take out Chinese?

Tim


Edited by Ma_Republican (02/04/20 05:33 PM)
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“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
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#321013 - 02/04/20 05:42 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: Ma_Republican]
Hamish Howl Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/21/19
Posts: 608
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican


There is a theory that by cutting taxes, the population has more money to spend, increasing tax revenue. In theory it is an elegant assumption, in reality it doesn't really work.


And there you have it.

Some things look great on paper, but just aren't so.
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#321014 - 02/04/20 06:24 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: Ma_Republican]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10285
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
In my opinion, every tax cut is a pay raise, and I will take every pay raise that I can get.

Tim, when you go to the automatic teller and you get a $200 cash advance on your credit card, do you consider that to be a pay raise?
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#321016 - 02/04/20 06:48 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3465
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
It may be of interest that Obama was steadily reducing the deficit when he left. He had also been working on the national debt as well. Instead of continuing that the jackass Trump decided debt was good (he always did claim he was "the master of debt"). Anway, his solution to debt was simply to not pay it! He had a very long history of that.

Here are some links to understand the national debt (best I've found - easy to understand)
If you read it all it will help you, in part, understand why Trump is messing with SS.
https://www.thebalance.com/national-debt-under-obama-3306293
https://www.thebalance.com/the-u-s-debt-and-how-it-got-so-big-3305778
https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-the-national-debt-4031393

The result is that we have a president with absolutely no respect for debt. Since the Republicans are forgiving his behavior (they now admit that he did bahave badly) perhaps he will forgive the nation debt, destroy the dollar, and bring on a complete collapse of our economy. Then, perhaps, they might understand why the rest of us are concerned with his behavior?

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#321019 - 02/04/20 07:24 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: logtroll]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6517
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
In my opinion, every tax cut is a pay raise, and I will take every pay raise that I can get.

Tim, when you go to the automatic teller and you get a $200 cash advance on your credit card, do you consider that to be a pay raise?


The big difference is that when I go to an ATM, I never get a cash advance, it is my money, to spend as I see fit. A tax cut is also, in theory, my money. However, I will never have to repay it, as it is obvious that the deficit will never be repaid. I can beat my head against the wall, or I can just take the money and bank it.

I like to tell people that Momma raised ugly kids, not dumb kids. Turning down free money is dumb, and a tax cut is as free as money gets.

Tim
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

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#321021 - 02/04/20 07:57 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: Ma_Republican]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10285
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Thanks, that explains everything...
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#321023 - 02/04/20 08:52 PM Re: Democrating Efforts [Re: Ma_Republican]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10285
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
I like to tell people that Momma raised ugly kids, not dumb kids. Turning down free money is dumb, and a tax cut is as free as money gets.

I have another question - do you think there are many right-wingers who are actually fiscally conservative, or better yet fiscally responsible?

Or all they all just selfishly greedy without a care for the consequences?
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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